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Alright guys I need some help. I am a Space Wolves player and I need to find out something about my little friend Ulrik The Slayer and his Wolf Helm of Russ. BRB tells me that any IC that wants to allocate attacks towards Ulrik must pass a Leadership test.

Is this totally useless against Fearless units?? I had an argument today about this and I feel that I am right. This is how I see it..

Fearless = Automatically passes morale and pinning test.

Leadership = A totally different test than morale and pinning.

To me the IC would still take the "Leadership" test to be able to attack since the Fearless rule is subject to Morale and Pinning test.

Someone correct me if I am wrong or explain a little more to me if morale and leadership are indeed the same thing when taking test??

You're right. Fearless USR doesn't make everyone pass leadership tests. Some units have special rules that add on to Fearless though. Like the old nid codex specified that units in synapse would pass any leadership test they were required to make in addition to the morale and pinning tests.

Ten Four, thank you.

I completely 100% agree.

A good thing to compare to is an Eldar Farseer 12" from an Avatar (Or any Fearless spell caster). Regardless of me being 12" from that Avatar, and therefore being fearless, I still need to take psychic test/leadership tests for my spells. It would be stupid for me not to and would make no sense what so ever to any player.

A Characteristic Test (p.8) is DIFFERENT from a Morale Check. A Morale check is a TYPE of Leadership Check, but a Leadership check is NOT always Morale check. Fearless (p.75) lets you pass Morale and Pinning checks, which are a type of Leadership checks. It does not say you pass all Leadership checks.

Had this discussion (again) this weekend about the good old horror fexes.

tyjet3 wrote:I completely 100% agree.

A good thing to compare to is an Eldar Farseer 12" from an Avatar (Or any Fearless spell caster). Regardless of me being 12" from that Avatar, and therefore being fearless, I still need to take psychic test/leadership tests for my spells. It would be stupid for me not to and would make no sense what so ever to any player.

A Characteristic Test (p.8) is DIFFERENT from a Morale Check. A Morale check is a TYPE of Leadership Check, but a Leadership check is NOT always Morale check. Fearless (p.75) lets you pass Morale and Pinning checks, which are a type of Leadership checks. It does not say you pass all Leadership checks.

If only Fearless did make you use Librarian skills like nothing.

ChrisCP wrote:Had this discussion (again) this weekend about the good old horror fexes.

To be fair, the Horrorfexes don't cause a pinning test, they cause a Ld Test that of failed cause the unit to be pinned. Subtle difference!

That being the pointy end of the discussion I was trying to make the subtle difference between say "Take a pinning test" and "Take a LD test" damn guy was on my team too arguing that that fearless units "Passed all leadership tests" point out the relevent pages where it says "Fearless units...." got more "No, no nooooo!" back dirtected him to the "Characteristis tests" on page eight and he still came back with "No that can't be right - fearless unit can't be pinned it doesn't work" Gave him the old "Well Arch Angel of Pain at the bottom of the page says for them to 'take a pinning test' why would it be worded that way and the horror fex's in special fashion? So that maybe they work all the time maybe?"

Anyway by that point the other two guys had finished deciding what they were going to do for the rest of their turn etc so we pushed on

Edit: Arch Angles lol lol lol

ChrisCP wrote:That being the pointy end of the discussion I was trying to make the subtle difference between say "Take a pinning test" and "Take a LD test" damn guy was on my team too arguing that that fearless units "Passed all leadership tests" point out the relevent pages where it says "Fearless units...." got more "No, no nooooo!" back dirtected him to the "Characteristis tests" on page eight and he still came back with "No that can't be right - fearless unit can't be pinned it doesn't work" Gave him the old "Well Arch Angel of Pain at the bottom of the page says for them to 'take a pinning test' why would it be worded that way and the horror fex's in special fashion? So that maybe they work all the time maybe?"

Anyway by that point the other two guys had finished deciding what they were going to do for the rest of their turn etc so we pushed on

So was he arguing that he had to take a LD test or a pinning check? If it was pinning, he would be immune by Fearless, if it was a LD test, then he would have to take the test.

No, he was insisting Fearless units a) didn't have to make Ld checks and b) were immune to 'is pinned'.

Where as Fearless means they pass all morale and pinning tests.

Ah I see, a pinning check but NOT a pinning check. Interesting.

If the "A Leadership test to avoiding being pinned is not a pinning test" argument keeps going, the Dark Eldar are going to end up with a codex with a big black and white '3rd Edition' stamp on it. And then we'll ALL be sorry.

But mummy they tell us to take pinning tests in other places in the codex~!

Seriously, thou having started playing DE a few months ago now (I think time is slippery when you work in education) and loving the codex, it could just be... well... *NEW* (the asterix is to represent that it's sparkling new)