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In the rules it says that it hits every enemy unit within 2D6". Each must then make a leadership test. When it loses, it takes as many wounds as points it failed by.
Let's say that a fire warrior in a group of 10 is within range. Does this mean that this specific warrior takes a leadership test, along with every other fire warrior in range, or does that mean that this fire warrior counts for it's entire group and they take the test, removing as many fire warriors as wounds?

To simplify the question: Who takes the test? Each single man within range, or his entire group?

In addition, do they get cover saves? What about embarked units?

1.) It hits each "Unit", so only one test per group of FWs
2.) It is classified as a psychic shooting attack, so yes cover saves apply (GW FAQ 5th Edition)
3.) Units embarked in transports cannot be targeted by shooting attacks. While this is fuzzy since the area of effect isn't targeted, I would still say no. In a similar situation, the Doom of Malan'Tai doesn't affect units embarked in transports, either. i wish INAT would fix that one.

Edit: on 3.) I'm not sure how RAW would apply exactly.

The reason I ask is because... Well, this is a quote from the GW website:
"If you're going to play aggressively with your Hive Tyrant and get right in among the enemy, then this can affect lots of units."
^ This makes it sound like they mean models.
I guess I'll assume that it means one per group, though. Thanks for clearing that up.

tetrisphreak wrote:1.) It hits each "Unit", so only one test per group of FWs
2.) It is classified as a psychic shooting attack, so yes cover saves apply (GW FAQ 5th Edition)
3.) Units embarked in transports cannot be targeted by shooting attacks. While this is fuzzy since the area of effect isn't targeted, I would still say no. In a similar situation, the Doom of Malan'Tai doesn't affect units embarked in transports, either. i wish INAT would fix that one.

Edit: on 3.) I'm not sure how RAW would apply exactly.

Where does it say the Doom's rule is a psychic shooting attack? The Doom can hit units in transports still, I havn't seen anything that says otherwise. Think of it this way, the Doom is like a black hole that souls are getting sucked into, a Rhino isn't going to stop souls from passing through it. They gave embarked units a 4+ cover save to make it 'fair'.

HFG has what i was going to point out first.

Doom of Malantai is not a psychic attack at all, its a passive ability, its still grey on any front because only shooting and psychic abilities have been covered when targetting things in a vehicle.

for #3, GW BGB FAQ as of march states that units in a transport can not be the target of a psychic ability (note not limited to attacks) unless the psyker is in the vehicle with the unit to be targetted.

1) The unit.
2) They get cover as per the GW FAQ.
3) RaW embarked units can be hit, but the GW FAQ denies this.

I don't understand a lot of the answers to the thread...The OP isn't talking about Doom at all, but a psychic power used by the hive tyrant.

Gwar! is right on the money. And for confirmation...units and models are two completely different things.

Lukus83 wrote:I don't understand a lot of the answers to the thread...The OP isn't talking about Doom at all, but a psychic power used by the hive tyrant.

Gwar! is right on the money. And for confirmation...units and models are two completely different things.

The Doom thing came up when Tetris said he shouldn't affect units in transports.

Ah...missed that part.

extension question...

Can psychic scream hit models in close combat?

You arnt intentionally hitting a CC, but it happens to have "scattered" over the CC by being an AOE.

I don't see why not. You cannot target models in close combat, but since it is simply an attack that affects every enemy model in its range, there is no targeting rule to obey.

It's a psychic shooting attack, mind you, I strain SHOOTING. I'm pretty sure that by not being able to shoot into assault you are not allowed to shoot them, therefore it can't effect them.

This is my point, i know its a shooting attack, but the shooting into assault only states you can not intentionally shoot into an assault, but you can scatter onto it.

Sure, pick a unit on the other side of the board.

Make Psychic Test.

Measure rolled radius from Tyrant.

Any enemy units in range make Ld tests, cc or not.

Its also like a barrage. Sure you cant aim for a unit in cc but you can 'scatter' onto them.

Yes, units in CC should be affected as long as they're not the 'target' unit, they just happen to catch the splashback as it were.

As to the doom issue which took the thread temporarily off-track, i apologize. RAW Gwar is correct as usual, but at my FLGS we play it that they are not affected (but units who are affected do not get cover saves, inv only).

Sorry for not clarifying in an earlier post.

-tetris

Rossebay wrote:It's a psychic shooting attack, mind you, I strain SHOOTING. I'm pretty sure that by not being able to shoot into assault you are not allowed to shoot them, therefore it can't effect them.

I have a seer council in combat with 2 tac squads, your librarian hiding a foot away casts null zone. Does it affect the seer council?

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Rossebay wrote:It's a psychic shooting attack, mind you, I strain SHOOTING. I'm pretty sure that by not being able to shoot into assault you are not allowed to shoot them, therefore it can't effect them.

I have a seer council in combat with 2 tac squads, your librarian hiding a foot away casts null zone. Does it affect the seer council?

And I have an Apple which is made of Banana Bread.

Null Zone is not a Shooting attack, so it has no relevance to this discussion.

Gwar whats your approach on psychic scream hitting things in cc?

Gwar! wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Rossebay wrote:It's a psychic shooting attack, mind you, I strain SHOOTING. I'm pretty sure that by not being able to shoot into assault you are not allowed to shoot them, therefore it can't effect them.

I have a seer council in combat with 2 tac squads, your librarian hiding a foot away casts null zone. Does it affect the seer council?

And I have an Apple which is made of Banana Bread.

Null Zone is not a Shooting attack, so it has no relevance to this discussion.

I thought psychic scream worked the same way DoM did. I havent ever used a tyrant, so was shaky on the rules.

Seriphis wrote:Gwar whats your approach on psychic scream hitting things in cc?

In short, No. It is a Psychic Shooting Attack, and Shooting cannot target models in CC, it can only Scatter into them, which Psi Scream never does.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:I thought psychic scream worked the same way DoM did. I havent ever used a tyrant, so was shaky on the rules.

Nope. Scream is a Shooting attack. DoM and Null Zone are not.

Gwar! wrote:

Seriphis wrote:Gwar whats your approach on psychic scream hitting things in cc?

In short, No. It is a Psychic Shooting Attack, and Shooting cannot target models in CC, it can only Scatter into them, which Psi Scream never does.

But... wouldn't this mean you can't use the power at all if it would hit a CC?

Hmmm, I believe it wouldn't affect units in cc. It is a psychic shooting attack, but it doesn't actually target a unit.

I may be wrong though. Is there a precedent? Doom is similar but it isn't a shooting attack, it's an effect.

Grrr, buddy has my BRB atm so I can't reference it, but if it only prohibits you from targeting units in CC, then it should work fine. If it says you cannot shoot, or affect units in CC with shooting attacks, then you would not be able to use it near units in CC as there are no allowances for just ignoring it's effects. Personally I think the "psychic shooting attack" tag is just so there as a limiter on the number of times you can use it, and it was intended to be used just fine near and on units in CC, but RAW doesn't really care about what I think

It appears that the restriction on shooting and models in cc is that they cant be the target of a shooting attack. There seems to be no other restriction, so they should still be able to be hit by any attack that doesnt target them.

Since the tyrant's psychic scream is never targetted, it would seem that it could be used to hit units in cc even if that unit were the only unit hit by the scream.

There doesnt have to be a target at all for the scream from its own rules...we can attempt to force it into the regular shooting rules by requiring the tyrant to pick a target. If we do go this route, then if the target unit is outside of the range of the scream the scream would "miss" and not cause wounds on any unit at all.

This is going by the similar rules for firing flamer "over" one unit at a second unit, in the attempt to get wounds on both units.


So its not crystal clear how a scream should be resolved, but it would seem that being in cc is no protection ffrom the effect, if there is a second viable target unit in the range of the scream. (or perhaps anywhere on the board, if one doesnt require the scream to actually hit the target unit....since scream itself doesnt appear to require a target)



Sliggoth

PS Just as a side note, tyranid psychic powers in general are a mess since it looks like GW is getting vague on psychic powers. There have long been passive psychic powers in the game, but the tyranid codex goes very wishy washy on this subject. Which leaves us with a few tyranid abilities that are passive psychic abilities even tho GW isnt addressing them as such, but leaves us with a very poor handle on how they interact in some situations.