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I started playing warmachine when it first came out but due to school took a bit of break. I have now returned to the game to find much more units, a new faction and new rule book! Originally I play mercenaries with Magnus as my warcaster. I was looking at epic magnus the other day and noticed his "can substitute for a skorne warlock". On that not skorne, in my opinion, is the coolest faction with an awesome roman/samurai theme to them, much better than the legion or circle that turns players in to snooty know it alls (as all elf armies do I find).

Now I know very little about hordes and it's differences from warmachine though I have ordered the mkII book coming out. What I need help with is figuring out what to buy initially. I briefly looked over the gallery and I really like the cyclops models. Could someone help me out with a small-medium sized army list using cyclops and maybe the elephants (I don't like the basilisks)? Also I'm not sure which warlock to choose. I like the guys with 2 weapons but I read all of their rules and the bad asses seem kinda crummy compared to the fugly looking warlocks.

Thanks from the half rat,

Wererat

You can't go wrong with the battlebox if you want Cyclops and Titans - you get 2 savages and a titan in it.

If you want a Warlock that can operate well with beasts, word on the grapevine is that the most recent Skorne preview is the guy you need.

Ok what about units? what are some fun ones to play and how big should the squads be, etc?

I have the battlebox already and was wondering what other guys would be cool to add? are brutes fun/good? what about other titans and the shaman cyclops and unique cyclops?

As for the warlock sugestion..I don't really want a lazy bastard leading my army, I want a bad ass like Xexis

Brutes are defensive warbeasts.

Molik Karn has an affinity with Makeda and her epic version, but she's very troops
oriented. I'm not quite sure how she plays in MK2 except that I got whiplashed to death
at Adepticon by her (she leashed her heavy warbeast to get it extra movement and
then it did some slam move thing to eat my warlock).

Xerxis is Badass, but doesn't help beasts.

I saw a player using a lot of Titans with Hexeris to good effect recently.

As for infantry, I like swordsmen.

Ok so if I wanted to field, say, 2 cyclop savages, 1 brute, 1 titan, would that be too much? What warlock would work best for this? In my opinion Zaal and Mordikaar(?) seem to fit the bill but i'm not sure.

As for units I was thinking 1 unit of swordsmen, 1 unti of karaks, 1 unit of those huge guys with halberds and shields. Possibly considering a gaurdian and unit of immortals.

Would this be a good place to start my army?

If you're going with Zaal, then you'll want Swordsmen, Immortals, Extollers and Ancestral
Guardians. That green guy that comes with him is the spirit of a destroyed ancestral guardian and
it's kind of scary (from what I remember).

And of course, Paingivers. Especially if that's how beast heavy you're running.

I'm waiting for the site to come back up to peruse the pdf.

Unitwise

Preatorian swordsmen with the unit attachement:
most people run them in just about every list, a very cheap unit that can mow through 1 wound infantry.
Paingiver beast handlers:
Also in almost every list make your beast hit harder and more easdily mangaged.
Cataphract cetrtati:
are a very durable unit that can dish it out too although they are pricey pointwise
Cataphract accuri:
cheaper and lees durable then cetrati but with a nice range option.

Beast wise start with a gladiator and molik karn then get something you think looks really cool (I myself have 2 rhinodons a 15 pt list with 3 heavies is fun to surprise people with.)

Alrigth so based on feedback I scrapped together a shopping list, bare in mind I don't know all fo the rules of these guys and am still kinda hazy on Hordes and their differences from warmachine.

warlock: no idea

beasts (4): titan gladiator, cyclops brute, cyclops savage, Molik Karn

Units (4): Swordsmen, beast handlers, cetrtari, karaks

I figure this should be a nice start point, still not sure about Molik Karn. I would consider a unit of immortals as well but we'll see.

What does everyone think?

Although I do not play Skorne, I think you might not need the Karax that much. They fill kinda the same role as the Cetrati, so I'd suggest either one or the other. Also, as gunkie said above, get the unit attachment for the Swordsmen as well!

I think your other purchases can go with almost any of the Skorne Warlocks, but I think that the best one for what you're getting would be Makeda or Hexeris.

Makeda likes Molik Karn and some units, the Swordsmen and Cetrati will be nice with her, I think. And the Beast Handlers are practically an auto-include when you use beasts.
Hexeris also likes a unit or two, and then some beasts. The Gladiator is a great beat-stick, and the Cyclops' are also pretty good, I think.

So for warlocks, I'd go with Makeda and Hexeris. Hmmm, Mordikaar might actually work as well... There are a lot of possibilities, but I'd personally go with Hexeris and Makeda

But! What about solos?! You gotta have some solos Depending on the points-bracket naturally! At 35 pts. you might not have enough points left over for that many beasts.
I'd suggest a Void Spirit (I think it's a great disruptor) and an Ancestral Guardian to benefit from when your guys start dying.

One thing though: You're woefully short on ranged attacks and protection against them, which means you'll be trudging over the battlefield and get shot at without any possibility of reprise. If I were you, I'd get a Krea. The mini is not very pretty, but it's animus will be immensely valuable against ranged heavy armies.

The above is of course my own theory-machining about Skorne, so I might be totally wrong :p

EDIT: Oh, one thing! Which points-bracket would you play mostly? 35 pts or 50 or what?

In terms of point bracket I mostly played 35pts. Since I'm not a fan of Makeda model maybe Hexeris will be fun to use . It's been a while so I forgot about the big point restriction so maybe what i'll do is toss out the karaks and Molik Karn and get a void spirit, gaurdian with a shooting unit.

current sopping list

Warlock: Hexeris, Zaal or the new guy if I like his stuff.

Beasts(3): titan, 2 savage cyclops (cheapest way to do it and my favorite units coincidently)

units (4): swordsmen (eventually throw in the attachement), beast handlers, cetrati, shooting unit(don't know what skorne has for shooting)

solos: void spirit (he looks really freakin cool), ancestral guardian

does that sound like a 35pt list?

side note: if i decide on Zaal then I will probably take immortals over cetrati

Looks good to me, although "real" Skorne players might say something different. I might do something like this?

Army: Hexeris Stuff
Type: Skirmish (1 caster, 35pts)
Points: 35
Lord Tyrant Hexeris
* Cyclops Savage
* Cyclops Savage
* Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Ancestral Guardian
Void Spirit

Plenty of bodies for the Ancestral Guardian and the Swordsmen are a pretty good unit for Death March, since they can do some serious damage to one-wound models.

The Cetrati can protect Hexeris, and are good for counter-charging when the gak hits the fan.

Soul Slave can go on either Savage, and they're great missiles too.

The Gladiator is for taking heavy targets, and the Void Spirit can disrupt your opponents plans while you get over the table.

Paingivers use their manipulations as needed.

I like it, but you will probably get a zillion different opinions, so it's naturally all up to you

Some thoughts on the big guy:

He'll need large bases to block LOS to him, which means more heavies, some kind
of method for generating clouds, or ferox cav.

I really want to know what he can do, too.

Oh, ranged units. Skorne have two;Venator Reivers, who are expensive points-wise, and Cataphract Arcuarii, who are expensive money-wise

I don't really know which of those two I'd get ... Both cost 9 pts. for a full unit, and both have Combined Ranged Attack. Reivers have longer range, but die much easier and aren't much to speak of in melee, while the Arcuarii are good in melee, have Drag (which is pure gold covered in diamonds for scenarios), but are much fewer in number.

I think it comes down to which you think look cooler actually, so I'd probably use Arcuarii

That's why I end up with the titan most of the time.

I just read the Arcuarii rules.

I'd take them if your money can stretch to afford them. Drag + Weapon Master is just plain crazy. They potentially fill the roles of Cetrati and Reiver.

RNG 8, RAT 5, POW 12...

Even if you have CRA to ensure you both hit and damage the target, then you've only got
a 13" threat range and you only get the one weaponmaster attack at the end of a CRA.

It's situational at best. You're better off finding ways to charge 8", 10" with Reach and get 4d6 damage.

You actually get two Weapon Master Attacks against the pulled target.

One when it's pulled and one after that attack has resolved.

They can do a ton of dmg to Light Jacks and Beasts, murder solos, some possible dmg with lucky rolls against casters, but very little against Heavy Beasts.

So I took a look at the arcuarii and I really like how they look and will probably get them because I have found the larger the range of abilities in your army makes it alot more fun as there is more to do.

An update on my list in that case:

Army: Hexeris Stuff
Type: Skirmish (1 caster, 35pts)
Points: 35
Lord Tyrant Hexeris
* Cyclops Savage
* Cyclops Savage
* Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Ancestral Guardian
Void Spirit

Oh quick question, I'll be the only one playing hordes at my store, so I guess I'm wondering if Hexeris does justt as well against warjacks as warbeasts?

Finally I eventually plan on doing a 2 warlock list, using Magnus the warlord. Has anyone done this before and if so how exactly does it work? Can I still take mercs or just magnus and the warjacks in his group?

Well, at 35 pts., you'll have to choose between the Cetrati and Arcuarii, since they're pretty pricy.

If you're out to make some lists, I'd suggest you go to Forward Kommander. It's an army buil... erm, army creation webpage that really helps you figure out how everything slots together

radiohazard wrote:You actually get two Weapon Master Attacks against the pulled target.

One when it's pulled and one after that attack has resolved.

They can do a ton of dmg to Light Jacks and Beasts, murder solos, some possible dmg with lucky rolls against casters, but very little against Heavy Beasts.

WEAPONS [LEADER & GRUNTS]
Drag - If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller base, immediately after the attack is resolved the
damaged model can be pushed any distance directly toward this model. After the damaged model is moved, this model can
make one normal melee attack against the model pushed. After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional
melee attacks during its combat action.

Here's the trade-off.

If you CRA by two, you're trading two ranged attacks for one that's both likely to hit
and damage the target in order to trigger the Drag push effect. That attack will be POW 14,
but not a weapon master attack (though +2 is essentially a weapon master attack). When
the target arrives only one model will get to make a weapon master attack with its melee
weapon against the dragged model.

So you used two weapon masters to make two weapon master attacks that weren't charges.

wererat wrote:Oh quick question, I'll be the only one playing hordes at my store, so I guess I'm wondering if Hexeris does just as well against warjacks as warbeasts?

Hexeris only has one ability that only work on warbeasts, Vampiric Reaving, so he should do just fine against warmachine as well. That specific ability rarely comes up anyways ...

wererat wrote:
Finally I eventually plan on doing a 2 warlock list, using Magnus the warlord. Has anyone done this before and if so how exactly does it work? Can I still take mercs or just magnus and the warjacks in his group?

You can only include Magnus the Warlord and his battlegroup, so you can't use any merc units or solos. Just eMagnus and his jacks

malfred wrote:

radiohazard wrote:You actually get two Weapon Master Attacks against the pulled target.

One when it's pulled and one after that attack has resolved.

They can do a ton of dmg to Light Jacks and Beasts, murder solos, some possible dmg with lucky rolls against casters, but very little against Heavy Beasts.

WEAPONS [LEADER & GRUNTS]
Drag - If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller base, immediately after the attack is resolved the
damaged model can be pushed any distance directly toward this model. After the damaged model is moved, this model can
make one normal melee attack against the model pushed. After resolving this melee attack, this model can make additional
melee attacks during its combat action.

Here's the trade-off.

If you CRA by two, you're trading two ranged attacks for one that's both likely to hit
and damage the target in order to trigger the Drag push effect. That attack will be POW 14,
but not a weapon master attack (though +2 is essentially a weapon master attack). When
the target arrives only one model will get to make a weapon master attack with its melee
weapon against the dragged model.

So you used two weapon masters to make two weapon master attacks that weren't charges.

Ahhhhhh I see. TY.

wererat wrote:
An update on my list in that case:

Army: Hexeris Stuff
Type: Skirmish (1 caster, 35pts)
Points: 35
Lord Tyrant Hexeris
* Cyclops Savage
* Cyclops Savage
* Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Cetrati (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii
Praetorian Swordsmen (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Praetorian Swordsmen Officer & Standard
Ancestral Guardian
Void Spirit

Ancestral guardians are kinda weak for three points in MK II unfortunately. Personally I'd go with the Totem Hunter in that slot. I run 2-3 AG's in my Zaal list and even there they haven't preformed all that well. Once they pop into a kovass though they are very scary.

wererat wrote:

Oh quick question, I'll be the only one playing hordes at my store, so I guess I'm wondering if Hexeris does justt as well against warjacks as warbeasts?

Hexy's feat now actaully works slightly better against warmachine as they are more likely to be running quality infantry. Many of his abiltities are more useful against hordes though so overall he's a fairly strong caster against either. I plan on running him as my Anti Cryx list because his feat can shut down E Asphyxious if the cyrx player isn't paying attaention.

Check it out:

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-5/17/2010-kris-aubin

Xerxis and Cetrati in front. Totally BA.