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So what's happened to Tyranid Warriors, they've always been a fairly core part of a Tyranid list due to synapse and I thought this would've been enhanced by them being troops.

Now I don't own a codex but I'm wondering where all the love for Warriors has gone? have they been neutered like the Carnifex's or are there just better options available?

(I am considering making a largely warrior tyranid army so I'm interested in this for multiple reasons...)

Cheers, Dave.

Im starting a Nid army, and am looking at warriors as a backbone for the troop section too. Biggest issues I see is that they are very expensive with options, and are a kind of jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none. Decent shooty, decent assaulty, but worse at assaulty than hormagaunts. Best thing they have going for them is multiple wounds and synapse, they can take a beating and keep other units in line.

From what I've seen, though, most Nids players are looking at Tervigons and Termagaunts for core units.

They're expensive in both dollars and points. They're still T4, so prone to instant-death.

Some people are having decent success with moderately large units (7-9), equipped with boneswords or bonesword + lash whip, and deathspitters, with attached Prime to boost their stats. Put in a pod for best delivery option.

Pretty sure it's their cost combined with terrible save and toughness 4, plus, I don't think they're fleet? Back in the old 'dex you could upgrade their survivability; now it's only their wounds that really do anything for them.

Shrikes, on the other hand, are flying Warriors for 5 points more and -1 sv. The Tervignon, though, has Synapse (up to 18" too), better survivability, and can give FNP, while also being a troop choice. That's just me looking at a rulebook without playing, though.

I love warriors, I use about between 10-20 in each game I play with my Tyranids. The best wasy to maximize their effectiveness is to synergize them with other units in the army.

Hive Commissar

go well with:
4 Warriors w/Rending Claws, Scything Talons & Toxin Sacs. These are given outflank per the Hive Commissar's ability. They make a pretty tough distraction for 140 points. 12 wounds, 4+ armor, re-rolling wounds against T4 or less, plus they extend synapse farther on the board to support other units moving quickly or deep striking. Also they put shadow of the warp farther into enemy territory, potentially messing up enemy psykers.

Alpha Warrior w/Boneswords & Deathspitter
Goes well with:
6 Warriors w/5 Deathspitters and Barbed Strangler. Now this whole unit has enhanced WS and BS, a crap ton of wounds and massive synapse/shadow coverage. These guys are screened by waves of gaunts for cover and can take a massive amount of abuse while maintaining a high level of damage output (remember, each warrior can fire 3 times a turn until he's dead, and he takes 3 wounds to kill now).

And the thing that makes it work even better:
Big Guys. I don't care, pick a carnifex or a tervigon (though I hate them) or a Trygon Prime (never regular Trygon) or a Mawloc. Sure you can instant kill a warrior now, but here's a pro-tip how to keep those big guns pointed away from them:

1) Give them something bigger and tougher to shoot at than the warriors.
2) Screen them for great justice and cover saves.

The problem imho is the change in synapse meaning it no longer grans immunity to instant death, so there's a lot of stuff out there that can kill them easily now. 3 wounds is great, but you pay for those 3 wounds and then they mean very little against quite a few armies.

Warriors can be a fantasyic unit, but you have to know what your Warriors are good at and make sure that they get stuck in somewhere they'll be worthwhile. Depending on your setup and the rest of your force, that can either be simple or very difficult.

The standard Deathspitter/Scything Talons/Prime setup is one of the easier variants to use - you get reasonably good anti-infantry shooting on platforms that are extremely good versus other standard infantry weapons. You can essentially walk them into some cover or to an objective, hunker down and spend the game blasting. A Prime is key, since you can reduce instant death issues somewhat and increase damage output thanks to BS4. These units tend to be quite large, and are often a lynchpin for the faster, assaulty elements of the swarm to hinge around. Barbed Stranglers are optional but recommended for this sort of unit, being cheap, long-ranged and very powerful.

There are also a range of other Warrior variants which are just as, if not more effective, though they require a little more thought to use and if you aren't careful they fail to make an impact worthy of their cost, or are simply wiped out for no reason.

That second category would include most melee variants, such as the cheap Scything Talons/Tending Claws/Toxin Sacks (and/or Adrenal Glands) build, the twin Bonesword build and the elite Sword/Whip/Talons/Toxin destroyers. These units, especially the lattter two, absolutely murder whatever they touch, almost without exception. The issues are their speed, their cost and their questionable survivability - all three of which can be very off-putting to aspiring Tyranid players, and perhaps rightly so when a Tervigon and accompanying Termagants is a much more user friendly choice.

None the less, Warriors are still available to fulfil a high-quality element in the Tyranid list if you feel you need one. There is little else in the book that can match a brood of melee Warriors at what they do, and ranged Warriors are an excellent mid-point between low grade Termagant firepower and the anti-mech Hive Guard/Zoanthropes.

In closing, it's not that there are *better* units than Tyranid Warriors, but rather it's that Warriors are finesse units taken for specific purposes, and you can often brute-force your way out of a situation where a brood of Warriors would excel with other units, albiet less elegantly.

I think I liked them better in the old codex - you could upgrade their shooting strength with toxin sacs, and you could give them leaping (Ability to assault 12")
Mine tend to get chewed up by shooting, T4 is a bummer.

They're three wounds each which is awesome, but they're no longer immune to instant death. However, you can make them pretty hardy by using a venomthrope to give them 5+ cover, and a Tervigon to give them FnP. It's all about synergy.

Avoid the pod with them.

If you must use them in another fashion outside of standard deployment, use the outflank if you took hive commander on a Tyrant. The pod will drop them into enemy territory, and even with a prime they'll get shot to shreds simply due to the fact that your opponent (if he or she is smart) cannot let them sit in the backfield blasting away, or moving into position to shred units with boneswords. The outflank will allow them to move/shoot/assault the turn they show up, while avoiding a turn or two of potential damage.

As for builds, make sure to specialize them. Warriors can get pricey quick so keep them focused: boneswords or swords/whips if you're going assault (rending claws are a poor choice here, and made more for prolonging a combat... something warriors cannot afford if there is a fist in the squad)... toxin sacs/adrenaline glands optional if you can afford it but keep their guns stock devourers. Ranged obviously gets deathspitters with a BS (VC isn't going to be worth the cost/use IMO... anyone have any luck with the warrior sized one?). Both squads become murder on legs with a prime, especially the melee one. I had one entire deathwing army gladly throw themselves at my MCs but ran away from my 6 man warrior squad like the plague.

They're expensive, but against small arms fire you'll be surprised how much damage they can take. Those instant death weapons should be neatly avoided.

OK, so the general consensus is that it's not that they're poor, just too specialised, particularly to have an entire army of 'em! That they're tough but vulnerable to instant death and are expensive.

OK, so running an entire army of them is pretty much out of the question... What about something along the lines of a couple of squads (6 man?) of warriors, alongside tervigons and maybe some fast movers such as Trygons or Gargoyles?
actually, I've noticed no-one take Gargoyles now, is it simply their fragility because they were also greatly anticipated with their new kit?

And yes, I am yet to play 5th Ed Tyranids yet...

Just Dave wrote:OK, so the general consensus is that it's not that they're poor, just too specialised

I think it's the opposite being argued, that they are not specialised enough. Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

I ran a medium bug list last edition that did well. It used lots of ravenors and warriors.

I have had some success running a deathstar unit (Bonelash/Toxin/Spitter) led by a prime or two in a pod. That is the only way I have made the unit work and it requires the rest of the army to be build around reserves, too. I support them with outflanking Stealers and Deep Striking Trygon Primes. Without total commitment, the unit dies to shooting. Without some element of shooting, people just avoid it once it shows up.