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I am hoping to enter a 1250 point each fantasy doubles tournament soon and would like some advice on my(Ogres) and my teammates list(Wood Elves)
I dont have much experience with fantasy so any advice would be cool.

Wood Elves

Heroes-Noble-light armour, shield, elven steed, Arrow of doom, The helm of the hunt-141
I think a 3+ is pretty good for a wood elf. He joins the riders to add to range damage and maybe male them passable in close

Core
12xGlade Guard-144

12xGlade Guard-144
these guys will hang back and obviously shoot the enemy. hopefully in a forest or on a hill.

12xDryads-144
These Guys will Babysit the Glade Guard and hopefully tie up units attacking the guard long enough for them to get away.

8xGlade Riders-Full Command-228
These go with the Noble

Special

Wardancers-Full Command-201
These guys lay down the pain in close.

Rare

10xWaywatchers- Shadow Sentinel-248
These Guys hopefully range out into a wood and lay down fire on multi wound creatures and cover the wardancers

(it was either these dudes or a treeman)

Total-1250

Ogre Kingdoms

Hero

Briuser-Heavy Armour, Tenderiser, Standar Bearer-209
He smacks big stuff

Butcher-130
He uses mega chesse magic

Core

10xBulls-Full Command, Iron Fists-450
they go with butcher

7xIron Guts-386
they go with bruiser

37xGnoblars-74
These guys throw stuuf at big things and swamp heroes and the like.

We may only have 1 general (the wood elf) and one standard bearer (the ogre Between us)

any thoughts?

advice would be absolutely kick ass and appreciated a lot

Total-1224

I can't comment on the Wood Elves as I don't use mine that often.

The Ogres however, are one of my favorite armies and I can give advise on them. Get your Ironguts to 10 Ogres. Put both the Bruiser and and the Butsher with them. Give the Iron Guts the Rune Maw banner. knock the gnoblers down to 20, stick them behind your Ironguts. This will give you some good magic resistance as you will be putting the spells onto the cheap gnoblers instead of your Ironguts.

Why did you make the Bruiser a Standard Bearer? I would leave him just as a normal bruiser and take Siegebreaker (I believe it's 50 point or under so he should be able to take it). It's my favorite magic weapon for ogres.

Give the Butcher Hellheart. It usually kills a magic phase for me. This will help you with deamons, Dark Elves etc...

For the Bulls, I would give them Additional Hand Weapons as they are cheaper. I find the Ironfists are useless for the most point as they are to expensive and if you do get wounded, it's usually by something that you won't get a save for anyways. I also wouldn't field 10 of them. anywhere between 3-6 is usually good.

Just remember your Ogres will be moving fast and will be hard hitting. Your wood elf ally should go for the warmichines and things that can shoot and leave the combat units to you. Nothing can stop a 10 men Irongut unit on a charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, just so you know, I am asking the questions, not being sarcastic lol.

I can't say anything about the ogres, but would assume the advice already given is pretty sound. I would think the ogres are providing the close combat. So with that in mind, I would make these changes to the WE.

I think I would make my noble a wardancer noble with the blades of loec = 140.

I would drop the wardancers and waywatchers down to 8 in each. With skirmishers, you don't get any rank bonuses, so the extra models are just extra wounds and at 18 or 24 points a piece is a little expensive.

Make the glade riders in 2 units of 5 with no commands. I don't believe fast calvary get rank bonuses either, and with only 9 (including your noble) you wouldn't get one anyway. For 12 points more you can have 2 units that will cause 2x the harassment.

And make the glade guard into 3 units of 10. Gives you more shots and is easier to manuever.

If you can alter it even more, I would consider trying for 2 units of 8 dryads. Can provide protection to glade guard and help wardancers with taking charges or counter charging or providing extra cover.

I am guessing he went with this list because those are the models he has. One battalion, box of wardancers, noble on steed, and 10 waywatchers. If that is the case and he doesn't want to spend any more, than I am sure you guys can make his list work. I would add a spear to the noble though so he at least has str. 5 on the charge if it comes to that. Also there are some other WE lists floating around here that use the battalion contents to get a 1000 or 1500 point list.

Thank you for the advice fighting gopher, here is the new list

Briuser-Heavy Armour, Tenderiser-164
He smacks big stuff

Butcher-130
He uses mega chesse magic

Core

6xBulls-Full Command, Iron Fists-234
they go with butcher

8xIron Guts-384
they go with bruiser

Special

3xLead Bealchers-165

Gnoblar Scrap Launcher-165

Total-1242

Do you have to measure to charge each turn with the scrap launcher to see if anyone is in range?

Actually he is just starting out but he doesnt want to buy that much fantasy and it would be king of a waste to get a box of riders for 2 guys if he doesnt play fantsay that often. same with the guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
we are thinking of making the elves 40 glade guard and no way watchers and then we could take some lords bowmen to fill the points

I would definately make sure the character in the Wood Elf army is shooty. Let the Ogres do the combat and the Wood Elves weaken everything.

I should warn you though, I know your say your Butcher has mega Cheese Magic but you most likely will never get a spell off. You only have one mage between the two of you. In Doubles you need to either have all your characters magic oriented, or have one or two to do some dispeling (Dispel Scrolls). You should be in combat second turn with Ogres so that should limit some of the magic damage you take. But you are going to have to some character killing to make sure that phase doesn't kill you.

Do you know the people in the tournament and what armies you most likely will be facing?

He is as shooty as can be

This is true but if the enemy has no mages then its all cool. And i could put him with the leadbelchers.

No i dont unfortunately



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Briuser-Heavy Armour, Tenderiser-164
He smacks big stuff

Butcher-130
He uses mega chesse magic

Core

6xBulls-Full Command, Iron Fists-234
they go with butcher

8xIron Guts-384
they go with bruiser

Special

3xLead Bealchers-165

3xLead Bealchers-165


Total-1242

Fighting Gopher wrote:I would definately make sure the character in the Wood Elf army is shooty. Let the Ogres do the combat and the Wood Elves weaken everything.

I agree with this, and I think these two armies could make a good combination. I think it would be excellent to split the glade riders into two units if he has the models. He could use the mounted noble to stand in for one, so he'd only have to find one more model if it comes down to it.

I'm not sure what other kind of noble to take- perhaps you should take a level 2 spellsinger with calaignor's stave to cast treesinging twice. If your opponent lets it go, it can be really useful, and it will give your other caster a chance to get something off.

That said, at this point level it's still very little offensive magic... but I love treesinging because of the low casting value, it really makes your opponent think about how many dice to devote to dispelling it. If he uses 2 each, then you've taken away 4 dice to help out your Butcher. If he uses 1, at least one of the treesinging casts will probably go off.

The wardancers are excellent, although I'd actually recommend dropping their champion- you don't want a weak character challenging and avoiding the extra attacks. I'll try to tweak a possible list a bit later and put it up as a suggestion

Here is a list based on the battalion set plus the noble with a great weapon.

Noble - steed, light armor, shield, spear, and blight of terrors = 143
Branchwraith - level 1 wizard, cluster of radiants = 140 OR Spellsinger - steed, Calingor's staff, dispel scroll, level 2 wizard = 187
Noble - alter kindred, great weapon, hail of doom arrow, helm of the hunt = 154
12x glade guard = 144
12x glade guard = 144
6x glade riders = 144
11x dryads w/branch nymph = 144 (go with 12 if using the spellsinger)
total = 1013 or 1050

I am not sure what he wants to spend, but I think a box of glade guard or glade riders would be a good investment. If he gets one of those, then he can either go units of 10 glade guard and use more of them or make one a unit of scouts (with a 30" range and being able to move and shoot and the +1 str at short range, I find regular guard to be better). Or he can make another unit of glade riders. I find fast calvary extremely useful and versatile. 2 units of 5 can cause a lot of havoc and being able to move 18" and shoot 30" without a penalty is fun.

thanks that would be cool. He actually has a spell singer but they have such little offensive power are they worth it? If we dont get forest the entire game all he will do is tree sing the forest my team mate gets to put down.

True, but moving that forest can be very useful!

I think 3 heroes is too much for 1250 points, boogeyman. I'd probably just go with 1, since he has a teammate that might have more effective heroes, or at most 2.

Definitely keep those wardancers in, and at least some of the waywatchers, too!

I'll have a go at a list later on if I can...

Yea, I have no idea what the ogres can bring, but only having 3 hero level characters in a 2250 game might get dicey. I just copied and pasted that list from another post based on the models she had. It would be helpful to know what he has available. I would drop the alter noble (even if he is cool and provides the only str.6 attacks for the army) from the other list but give that magic load to the noble on steed like you guys originally had. Then use those extra points for glade guard or riders. Let us know what he has available or what he wants to spend.

If you had 16 riders (batttalion plus another box) I would go with 3x5 riders. With the other being used as the noble or singer on steed of that's what he wants.
Glade guard, he could do 4x10 with the battalion and a box.
I really like wardancers too, but if you are providing the heavy hitting close combat, I would focus on the range and harassing units.
If he has the points, he can model some of the glade guard as waywatchers instead.

I think boogeyman already asked this, but is it possible to get a list of the models that he has? That way we could try making possible lists using the models that he can field

Currently a spellsinger but he is buying very soon

In that case, boogeyman's advice about converting glade guard into waywatchers is excellent- they're expensive on their own!

In the battalion box (if he decides to go that route) comes:
24 glade guard
8 glade riders
12 dryads

I'd recommend another box of dryads, so that you can field 3 units of 8 if you like. However, at this point level and pairing with ogres, one unit of dryads might be enough, while you put the rest of your points into shooting / harrassment units.

On the other hand, they might be nice as a bit of a shield for those expensive ogres going forward!!

As i said he is planning on buying the battleforce and 10 wardancers and another box of glade guard.

But how exactly would a waywatcher conversion go?

Also what would be better? three leadbelchers or the scrap launcher?

Taking into consideration i built my scrap launcher with half the parts and no instructions

I think many people just reserve the hooded heads for the ones they want to convert into waywatchers, and paint them in a darker shade of green. It works well enough, imho

Yes. The hooded heads and a slightly different paint scheme. There are also certain cloaks that have more leaves and vines on them. I would use those.

Would five way-watchers be worth anything? or should i go 10

They can be just because of their forest stalker rule. They can set up directly behind a unit and start shooting first turn with killing blow at short range. They also are useful at march blocking that unit from the beginning. 5 will be easier to set up, but will not cause a lot of damage. 10 just seem to be too expensive. They are a hard choice to make. Great eagles can perform some of their roles for only 50 points compared to 120, or at 240 (for 10) you could get a treeman for a little more. Granted a treeman is a totally different animal......ummm plant??

I use waywatchers for the models and usually run them between 5-7 strong.

But for this army would they be better or should we just stay with twice the glade guard for more ranged firepower to support the ogres.

At a low point level, waywatchers are generally considered a luxury item. This is a little unique, because if your list was 1250 alone (no teammate) I'd say leave them at home. I'm still tempted to say that, but you do need something for march-blocking... although you could also just use a small unit of glade guard scouts to save some points.

Also, looking at your Ogre list- only 4 units! I think a few units of dryads to run forward and screen for them could be a big plus.

Yes i think i might just have 2 units of 4 iron guts. that is more manuverability and less effect from enemy cannons and i think i will split the bull squad as well. It is a waste to have all those ogres doing nothing in the back rank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But i think the elves shall stay the same. the dryads and wardancers will guard the archers if needed. but other wise the dryads will block line of site to the iron guts and bruiser and the bulls will hide the wardancers

Briuser-Heavy Armour, Tenderiser-164


Butcher-130


Core

6xBulls-Full Command, Iron Fists-234


8xIron Guts-384


Special

3xLead Bealchers-165

Gnoblar Scrap Launcher-165

Total-1242

Heroes

Noble-Steed, Spear, Shield, Light Armour Hail Of Doom Arrow, Helm of the hunt-143

Spell singer-Lvl 2-125

Core

10xGlade Guard-120

10xGlade Guard-120

10xGlade Guard-120

10xGlade Guard-120

7xGlade Riders-216

10xDryads-120

Special

9xwardancers-162

Total-1246

What do you think?

Think it could work?

Its all built and we built ten men with the special cloaks and they are the only ones holding swords. so these guys can be used as waywatchers at a later date. Me and my freind were amazed at all the spare bitz we had. we onl used colaked heads and we still had a load of them and about 50 normal heads left. and there were so many spare standards.

I like it! I think they complement each other very well. I'd want to chop a little bit of points to get some gear for the spellsinger- perhaps a wardancer, a dryad or two, and a glade rider (that should be more than enough) to get him the stave and a scroll. But it looks great!

My only hesitation would be finding "fire lanes" for 4 units of 10 glade guard... the waywatchers would be easier to place and find a spot to shoot from. I would change one of the units to either glade guard scouts, so they can deploy farther forward, perhaps in cover, or waywatchers (it doesn't have to be many).

So everything is built/ready to go? That's awesome Would love to see some pics of it as it is or in battle!

Sorry I can't help with the Ogres, but the WE are looking good. The only thing I might change is to drop a couple of glade riders for Calingor's staff and a dispel scroll for the spellsinger. That would depend on what you are facing.

The other thing that is up to you guys is switching a unit of glade guard to 5 waywatchers. The waywatchers would provide you that first turn harassment, but at the cost of 5 shots. It might be worth it.

Even without the changes I think the WE part is really good and makes use of all the models.

Was just going to submit and saw that RiTides said the same thing.

Great minds think alike and all that...

For the ogres my only suggection really is to take the command from the bulls and give it to the iron guts, also take the ironfists off of them and make it additional hand weapons. If you can scroung up the points some where, get the Rune Maw and 20 Gnoblers. The rune maw is one of the best banners in the game.

hmmm thats wrong for the ogres it goes something like this instead

Briuser-Heavy Armour, Tenderiser-164

Butcher-130

Core

3xBulls-117

3xBulls-117

4xIron Guts-192

4xIron Guts-192

Special

3xLead Belchers-165

Gnoblar Scrap Launcher-165

Total-1242

That way more maneuverability and less ogres doing nothing at the back

Check the rules on the scraplauncher, I believe it can on be used if you have a unit of gnoblers.

Crap your right. how about ditching one iron gut for 20 gnoblars?

I think were going to go with 5 way watchers because that march block would be great and the ability to get so close to enemy cannons which will be a bane for my multi wound ogres would rule. also only losing 5 shots isn't that bad and killing blow is awesome. Also with bs3 archers not at long range or having moved hitting on a 6+ then a 4+ rules


Automatically Appended Next Post:
These are what i believe to be the final lists. the necklace on the bruiser is because i had extra points and just heavy Armour didn't seem like enough.

Bruiser-Heavy Armour, Siege Breaker, WyrdStone Necklace-184

Butcher-130

Core

3xBulls-117

3xBulls-117

6xIron Guts-Standard Bearer, Rune Maw-328

20xGnoblars-40

Special

3xLead Belchers-165

Gnoblar Scrap Launcher-165

Total-1246

Heroes

Noble-Steed, Spear, Shield, Light Armour Hail Of Doom Arrow, Helm of the hunt-143

Spell singer-Lvl 2-125

Core

10xGlade Guard-120

10xGlade Guard-120

10xGlade Guard-120

7xGlade Riders-216

10xDryads-120

Special

9xwardancers-162

Rare

5xWaywatchers-120

Total-1246

I explained why we are taking way-watchers but its also because they don't rank up properly with the cloaks and swords.

So if you could tell me if there is anything illegal in the lists or if they have the wrong points or just plain suck that would be great.

(Also i just rolled with my gnoblars at an imaginary giant in front of them and the dice rolled with them taking all 6 wounds off )