Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was looking through the los rules both in the shooting section and vehicle section when this came up on friday, had a glance since but still can't spot a rule on it.

I ask as my three Kans where standing in front of my mates Battlewagon, two big shooters on the sides (in Sponsons) and one near the front all where blocked by the cans, but the one on top could see over. So what happens then?

We went for blocked Los, and he shot the Kans instead, but he would have rather shot at my dis-embarked Trukk mob that was about eight inches behind the kans.

Was that the right or wrong call?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I was looking through the los rules both in the shooting section and vehicle section when this came up on friday, had a glance since but still can't spot a rule on it.

I ask as my three Kans where standing in front of my mates Battlewagon, two big shooters on the sides (in Sponsons) and one near the front all where blocked by the cans, but the one on top could see over. So what happens then?

We went for blocked Los, and he shot the Kans instead, but he would have rather shot at my dis-embarked Trukk mob that was about eight inches behind the kans.

Was that the right or wrong call?

You use True Line of Sight. If he can see even a micron of an enemy tanks hull, he can shoot at it. It will, of course, get a cover save if 50% if obscured. Similar for non vehicles. If you can see even a tiny part of it, you can shoot it, but they might get a cover save.

For arguments sake if the top gun wasn't there, or had been destroyed, the Kans would be able to block the lower three though yes?

I assume (although I might be wrong) folks can't shot past their rhinos and just give the enemy a 4+ cover save.

I was just pondering as it says you can shoot through units to hit an enemy to which they get a 4+ cover, but I couldn't find a note saying btw Vehicles still block los.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:For arguments sake if the top gun wasn't there, or had been destroyed, the Kans would be able to block the lower three though yes?

You'd kneel down, take a model's eye view from the sponson and determine whether or not it can catch a glimpse of the enemy. If it can, you can shoot. There's no "blocking LOS" if you can see any part of the enemy model.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I assume (although I might be wrong) folks can't shot past their rhinos and just give the enemy a 4+ cover save.

You can if you can see a model in the enemy unit. The models wanting to shoot have to be able to see at least one model in the enemy unit (even if it's just a head, an arm, a leg), but other than that, they can shoot through whatever they like, so long as they can see.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I was just pondering as it says you can shoot through units to hit an enemy to which they get a 4+ cover, but I couldn't find a note saying btw Vehicles still block los.

Because it is true line of sight. If you can see it, you can shoot it. I believe, however, (I don't have by BGB on me, since I'm at work) that when firing sponsons and other vehicular weapons, you take a model's eye view as if the weapon itself was a model firing.

Ah good thats what I thought.

In the case on friday he could have chosen to fire one big shoota at the boys, but the other three where all blocked as the Kans had Just tried to CC it and had all failed to hit on a 6+ Thus had ended up so close to the wagon that the bodies where almost touching the gun barrel tips.

He decided to risk the Kans and it didn't pay off, as long as I didn't cheat him by saying the three lower ones had no los so couldn't shoot the boys I'm happy.

Might be stupid question but what about infantry untis with LOS. Lets say my unit of 10 men is partially behind a building and their unit of 10 men is in the open. 5 of my men have LOS on the whoel of their unit. So....

a) can only those 5 with LOS fire?
b) as only half of my unit has LOS does the othe runit get a 4+ cover save, even though they are not actually IN cover?

Praxiss wrote:Might be stupid question but what about infantry untis with LOS. Lets say my unit of 10 men is partially behind a building and their unit of 10 men is in the open. 5 of my men have LOS on the whoel of their unit. So....

a) can only those 5 with LOS fire?
b) as only half of my unit has LOS does the othe runit get a 4+ cover save, even though they are not actually IN cover?

A.

Your models have to be able to see at least one model in the enemy unit to fire. And if they're in the open, they obviously don't get cover, unless your men are 2" or more in cover, conferring to them a cover save.

Now, if a 10-man opponent unit was in a building with one guy standing outside and all 10 of your men could see just that lone man, then your entire unit could fire at his unit, but they would get a 4+ cover save. See the distinction?

Here's another good for-instance - I have a carnifex standing behind some trees. Across the board is a 5-man combat squad of tac marines. The way they are positioned, they can all see my fex. the 4 Bolters have to look through the trees to shoot, the missile launcher has a clear LOS.

1.) All 5 marines shoot - I get a 4+ cover save from the ML
2.) Just the Missile Launcher shoots - no cover save.


Which models you choose to fire with (depending on the scenario) can make a big difference. In this case would those extra S4 shots be worth it? Unlikely.

You treat the carni just like a vehicle (50% obscurred for cover) and it's and all or nothing affair for the shots from that unit. All of the shots from a unit will be subject to a cover save or none of them. If 50% of the unit's (more than 50%? don't have the BRB at hand) shots will be subject to cover, then they all are.

He can ellect not to shoot the bolters, and thus not grant cover by the launcher having clear LOS, the only time where units are forced to use all their attacks is CC.

PS: When i saw this thread's name my head exploded

Very true, I missed that as an option....I'm still on my first cup of coffee this morning :p