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I have had this argument with many people in our local store. The argument being that tactical squads don't suck simply because they aren't CSMs or GHs. Check out this article from the guys over at CNC. It, along with the other articles about Space Marines, make a good case for their viability in my opinion. So what do you think? Tactical Squads good or not? Respond here or on Capture and Control.

Of course Tactical Squads are good, good armor, good weapons, good stats. The only thing that make CSM better is that they are packing both Shooting and Combat gear, making them men for all seasons.

Tactical Marines still beat a good number of other Troops choices in the game.
Eldar have nothing as good
'Nids.... same
CSM are killier, but ATSKNF and Combat Tactics are valuable
Tau Troops are significantly worse for their points, plus no heavy weapons

Nothing wrong with Tactical Marines, they're probably the 4th or 5th best troop choice in the game (being worse then Grey Hunters and Orks for cost, and arguably worse then Blood Angels Assault Marines and Chaos Space Marines, though those are much closer) and on par with things like Veterans, Guardsmen and Genestealers.

Still puts them ahead of many standard troop choices even in some of the books the better ones come from.

Jack

Good stats, good armour, fairly cheap, access to good special weapons in both heavy, cc and assault variety, ATSKNF (one of the best rules in the games) and tricksy combat tactics tricks (or a special power) teamed with the flexibility of the combat squad and some of the best transports in the game (rhino/razor and drop pod. Chimeras are better now they dropped the pts but you can't argue with the rhino for a cost effective people mover, the drop pod for its tactical nouse or the razor for firepower per pt).

Grey Hunters are better though. GH add counter-attack, an extra attack from the ccw, access to multiple special assault weapons (better for a tactical type unit that will move), access to more special cc weapons including wulfen and their banner of uberness. The only things they lose out on are the combat squads, combat tactics and the heavy weapon. These are all good abilities and the loss is felt so the Hunters are a little more specialised and focused but in that focused area they are superior to Tac Squads.

As for CSM, no ATSKNF, no combat tactics, no combat squads, no razors and no drop pods but generally they match about equally. The various icons help them out a bit but then you just look at the cultists and wonder what on earth you're doing bothering with the basic grunts.

I'd say Hunters are tops, BA, BT, SM and CSM are about even, DA marines worst for basic MEQ troopers.

No, they don't. They're EXTREMELY efficient in points.

People claim Sisters are good troops choices, but Tactical Marines get far more for their points than Battle Sisters do.

Compared to other armies troops? They don't suck, but they sure don't excel.

On their own merit? Yes, you can do worse, but you can also do oh so much better.

Think about it. These guys are the definition of vanilla. They are 100% run of the mill baseline, average in every description of the word. They're not great at shooting, they're not great at CC, they might look pretty good at sticking around on paper, but let's face it - when people look at a unit and consider how effective it is, what's the first thing they think?

Hmm, how good is this thing at killing tactical marines?

Tac marines are the whipping boys of the 41st millenium. They're spread too thin, just plain not good enough at anything to be worth taking on their own merit, how many competitive lists do you see with 40 tactical marines? Take your 2 minimum units and don't go back for seconds.

They don't suck even on their own merit. They're good at assaulting, good at shooting, they can have a heavy weapon if you want (and even if you have the heavy weapon they don't give up their bolt pistol), and they get a free flamer, free frags, free kraks, MEQ (seriously, dont' doubt the effect of MEQ...), ATSKNF, combat tactics, combat squads...

Tactical Marines are damned good. An army of sixty tactical marines can do a LOT of damage when properly managed..

I'm considering making a Dark Angels army using the normal dex.

Yea, I really will have to train myself to kit them for shooting, unlike my 10 man blocks of Chaos Marines.

How good would a unit of assault marines with a Chaplin with jump-back be?

If its not too inappropriate to ask here that is.

Shadowbrand wrote:How good would a unit of assault marines with a Chaplin with jump-back be?

Don't do it. I mentioned in another thread that I haven't seen a Chaplain on the table in 5th edition. Yes, he adds some bite to an Assault Squad, but Assault Squads are not worth using to begin with. If you're going to build a nasty assault unit, Assault Terminators are really the way to go.
I've used a 5 man Assault Marine squad to reasonable effectiveness as mobile anti-tank/counterattack, but honestly, Land Speeders kill tanks and infantry much better.
Most SM players will use either a Librarian or a Captain on a bike (if they're going with a bike theme.)

Yes, your right. Tactical squads don't suck at holding objectives. But, that is about it. Tactical squads bring little firepower or assault capability for the amount of points you pay for them. It's best to keep them cheap and have them sit on your home objective.

Tacticals don't suck...they just pale in comparison to other units who do roles better than they can...and others do do better because the Tacs are supposed to be the jack of all trades.

Now... it ends up being a taste issue of whether or not you like the highly flexible and not great in any particular area of engagement unit.

Threads like this remind me just how much Marine players are spoiled...

Tactical Squads suck for BA though.

10 Tacs in a Rhino is 220
10 Assault Marines with 2 Meltas is 215.

Well yeah, but they're Blood Angels. You don't play Blood Angels for the tacticals...

They are kind of meh. Sure, good toughness and armour save. But they are mediocre at assaulting, they are mediocre at shooting. They aren't realy cheap. I personaly prefer troops which can be given a dedicated role, all hail the mighty Chaosmarine!

No I think tactical marines are pretty good troops. They have pretty good stats, can actually win an assault(sometimes ) and they have pretty good saves. Ive seen them also light up a mob of boyz pretty good too. If they person playing, plays them correctly they are really pretty good.

I think they would be even really against CSM though, yes CSM can do both shooting and assault, but they dont have ATSKNF which I personally think evens them out

Tactical Marines aren't awesome, but they've got good staying power. They have to be used in close conjunction with other tactical squads to ensure that they're effective and survivable though.

Melissia wrote:

Tactical Marines are damned good. An army of sixty tactical marines can do a LOT of damage when properly managed..

how bout an army of 60 tactical marines and 30 devastators with bolters all in drop pods

I'm not so sure about devastators, they ARE a bit overpriced. But, say... sixty tacticals (either pods or rhinos), two predator destructors, and a vindicator... maybe with an assault squad which has the HQ in it?

That'd be a force with plenty of bodies and firepower.

Tactical Marines can have just as many models in a mech squad as Battle Sisters for almost the exact same price. And yet people claim Battle Sisters are an effective troops choice, whereas Marines aren't...

MEQ is a huge bonus, as is ATSKNF, bolt pistols, frag/krak nades, and heavy weapons (Battle Sisters have no firepower greater than 24").

Captain Idaeus wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Tactical Marines are damned good. An army of sixty tactical marines can do a LOT of damage when properly managed..

how bout an army of 60 tactical marines and 30 devastators with bolters all in drop pods

Oh, this'll be fun! I haven't used Dark Reapers in years!

I love tacticals. They are my 3rd favourite unit in the game, and they are pretty much my best friend. Combat squad em, and you got 2x the scoring units, for the same price.