Making Ahriman of the Thousand Sons a more interesting Special Character.

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**Nitros14**

So the universal consensus at this point in 5th edition is that Ahriman is crap.

The most obvious change is to undo the Chaos FAQ and let him shoot a lot of stuff but that isn't neccesarily making him terribly interesting.

I would suggest making him change the entire dynamic of a Tzeentch flavoured army.

As such, amend the "Master of Sorcery" rule as follows:

In addition to its current effect, Master of Sorcery, while Ahriman is alive, causes all models bearing the Mark of Tzeentch in the same army to automatically pass all Psychic Tests (including Ahriman). In addition, whenever an enemy ability which disrupts or blocks Psychic Powers comes into play, such as Nullzone, Shadow in the Warp, Blessing of the Blood God or Runes of Warding, roll a D6. On a 1-3 the ability functions normally. On a 4-6 the ability is overwhelmed by the power of Change and fails to function. The Master of Sorcery rule immediately ceases to work should Ahriman be killed.

In this manner, Ahriman becomes an interesting character that fixes serious issues with a Tzeentch list and bolsters his army rather than being a gun platform that tends to kill himself.

**Xca|iber**

While I wholeheartedly agree with making Ahriman better/more interesting, but I'm not sure I like your MoSorcery change. It seems a bit unwieldy and unfocused.

Partially I think this bugs be because Chaos is all about personal power. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have an exiled sorcerer of all people to have a force multiplier power.

I might suggest something a little more... selfish for ol' Ahriman. Something like this (what you said, but just for him):

Master of Sorcery: Ahriman knows all the CSM psychic powers, and does not require any mark of chaos to cast them. Any time Ahriman successfully passes a psychic test, roll a D6. On a roll of 4+, the psychic power cannot be resisted, ignored, or nullified for ANY reason, and can affect units that are normally not affected by psychic powers. If the power is a shooting attack, cover saves taken against wounds caused by the attack are reduced to 5+ if previously better.

...and alter the Black Staff to let him fire the same psychic shooting attack multiple times.

**TheAvari**

I agree with Xcaliber Chaos powers should definitely be more of a selfish pursuit. i think that your idea is worth playtesting.
Ill see if i can find a chaos player at my gaming club who would be interested in testing this out to see if its balanced

**SwanCo**

TheAvari wrote:I agree with Xcaliber Chaos powers should definitely be more of a selfish pursuit.

This^

**Nitros14**

Oh don't think it's not selfish, his followers are much less likely to betray him if they so desperately need him. That's straight out of Machiavelli, "Therefore the wise Prince will seek means whereby his subjects will always and in every possible circumstance have need of his government and then they shall always be faithful to him."

And I'd say it's in line with the other Tzeentch character (Fateweaver) who also uses his Psychic power to boost allies.

**SwanCo**

Nitros14 wrote:Oh don't think it's not selfish, his followers are much less likely to betray him if they so desperately need him. That's straight out of Machiavelli, "Therefore the wise Prince will seek means whereby his subjects will always and in every possible circumstance have need of his government and then they shall always be faithful to him."

And I'd say it's in line with the other Tzeentch character (Fateweaver) who also uses his Psychic power to boost allies.

Machiavelli also said that the only way to keep people needy of him is to fear him. they would appreciate him for the buffs, they would fear him if he had greater powers.

**syanticraven**

Xca|iber wrote:While I wholeheartedly agree with making Ahriman better/more interesting, but I'm not sure I like your MoSorcery change. It seems a bit unwieldy and unfocused.

Partially I think this bugs be because Chaos is all about personal power. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have an exiled sorcerer of all people to have a force multiplier power.

I might suggest something a little more... selfish for ol' Ahriman. Something like this (what you said, but just for him):

Master of Sorcery: Ahriman knows all the CSM psychic powers, and does not require any mark of chaos to cast them. Any time Ahriman successfully passes a psychic test, roll a D6. On a roll of 4+, the psychic power cannot be resisted, ignored, or nullified for ANY reason, and can affect units that are normally not affected by psychic powers. If the power is a shooting attack, cover saves taken against wounds caused by the attack are reduced to 5+ if previously better..

Surely thats just overkill. It should be a 5 or 6+ for an ability like that to go off. And reducing a cover save is slightly bewildering.

**SwanCo**

syanticraven wrote:
Xca|iber wrote:While I wholeheartedly agree with making Ahriman better/more interesting, but I'm not sure I like your MoSorcery change. It seems a bit unwieldy and unfocused.

Partially I think this bugs be because Chaos is all about personal power. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have an exiled sorcerer of all people to have a force multiplier power.

I might suggest something a little more... selfish for ol' Ahriman. Something like this (what you said, but just for him):

Master of Sorcery: Ahriman knows all the CSM psychic powers, and does not require any mark of chaos to cast them. Any time Ahriman successfully passes a psychic test, roll a D6. On a roll of 4+, the psychic power cannot be resisted, ignored, or nullified for ANY reason, and can affect units that are normally not affected by psychic powers. If the power is a shooting attack, cover saves taken against wounds caused by the attack are reduced to 5+ if previously better..

Surely thats just overkill. It should be a 5 or 6+ for an ability like that to go off. And reducing a cover save is slightly bewildering.

can't brainwaves penetarte rocks?

**Nitros14**

If you want to look at it another way, rather than it being any conscious effort on the part of Ahriman his overwhelming psychic presence on the battlefield naturally augments nearby users of Tzeentchian magic.

**SwanCo**

that is a better point^

i think that he should have some sort of special retinue of psykers or something of the such. the more in his retinue the more he can feed off their powers and the stronger he gets. you get wound alocation places and strongr powers

**Nitros14**

SwanCo wrote:that is a better point^

i think that he should have some sort of special retinue of psykers or something of the such. the more in his retinue the more he can feed off their powers and the stronger he gets. you get wound alocation places and strongr powers

There's actually Apocalypse rules for Ahriman that let him drain an Aspiring Sorceror to cast a 10" barrage template Apocalyptic Storm of Change with Strength 8 AP 1.

But I'm talking about a regular game

**SwanCo**

haha i didnt know that (never done apoc before) but i still think an idea like that would be a simple way to balance his powers. He could start by having more then your usual sorcerer can (or maybe all of them) and the more in his lil brain retinue the more dice he can roll for damage or something (maybe like and additional d6 for every 2 guys)

**Mr. Self Destruct**

I honestly think he would be better off just being cheaper.
I saw the rules and thought they were pretty cool but for 250+ pts AFAIK he's way too much. I mean Abaddon is a better deal than him.
I think if he went down to at the most expensive 200 pts he would be much better.

**SwanCo**

true...but thats not too interesting, and as things stand still leaves Tzeentch chaos armies at a little bit of a down hand in comparison to other chaos choices. as a supreme sorcerer he just isnt doing much right now

**Xca|iber**

Well, if you want to take the sorcerer retinue approach, I suppose you could change it to something like this (making him like a pseudo PBS):

Shorthand:

Ahriman comes with 3-9 Cabal Sorcerers, each equipped with Power Armour, F&K grenades, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon. (Maybe start with 3 for free, and +5 or 10 pts for each additional one).

Ahriman may "expend" (remove as a casualty) one or more sorcerers per game turn to power one of the following abilities:
--Negate a Perils of the Warp attack. Power still fails to cast on a 12. Costs 1 Sorcerer.
--Add +D3 shots to a psychic shooting attack. Costs D3 Sorcerers (as many as the number of shots you rolled)
--Make a psychic shooting attack (test) with the profile: R24"/S5/AP3/Assault D3, Blast, Barrage. Remove a sorcerer for each shot rolled.

...or something like that.

**SwanCo**

that sounds good actually. i just think he needs something other then a lowering of points.
i do believe that he should have some special form of doombolt or an equivelent though to show his expertise.

**syanticraven**

a sorcerer with Power Armour, F&K grenades, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon all for 10 points?

**Xca|iber**

Could be more, I agree, but if Ahriman gets too expensive, he'd still have the same problem he has now.

**syanticraven**

For 10 points; basics armour, an alright weapon with high AP. no power weapon without extra cost, possibly 2 attacks.

That is a justified cost.