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This question hasn't emerged in-game yet since most our gameboards are pretty unassuming. A few hills, some forests. But recently we've been adding more ruins, buildings, and other urban features.

So here goes:
-TLOS requires being able to see bodies of a unit you're targeting, ignoring stuff like wings, etc, in order to target them.
-Going to Ground, requires that either you place a marker to show they've Gone to Ground, or you turn models on their side.

Assuming the models went to Ground in ruins or a trench, where flipping them over would make them no longer visible, would they still be targetable? As in would you attempt to trace LOS as though they were standing, or use their current position?

RAW, you are allowed to lay your models down when they go to ground. TLOS is required for shooting. If the model can't be seen, it can't be shot.

The option to use a marker, however, shows that this circumstance is probably unintended so feel free to house rule against if your opponents agree. I personally spend too much time painting my dudes to make them lie down.

Remember that going to ground occurs after the unit has been hit and wounded so they would still be shot by the original unit but may be hidden from further shooting.

MagicJuggler wrote:This question hasn't emerged in-game yet since most our gameboards are pretty unassuming. A few hills, some forests. But recently we've been adding more ruins, buildings, and other urban features.

So here goes:
-TLOS requires being able to see bodies of a unit you're targeting, ignoring stuff like wings, etc, in order to target them.
-Going to Ground, requires that either you place a marker to show they've Gone to Ground, or you turn models on their side.

Assuming the models went to Ground in ruins or a trench, where flipping them over would make them no longer visible, would they still be targetable? As in would you attempt to trace LOS as though they were standing, or use their current position?

You put the models standing up to determine if you can see them.

Anyone saying otherwise is a TFG.

Gwar! wrote:You put the models standing up to determine if you can see them.

Anyone saying otherwise is a TFG.

Those aren't the rules. Are you becoming a Liberal Gwar!?

Yup. This could be annoying for dealing with Imperial Guard in urban-games. (Incoming! as "I hide from return-fire"), etc. Better break out the flamers.

Soup and a roll wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You put the models standing up to determine if you can see them.

Anyone saying otherwise is a TFG.

Those aren't the rules. Are you becoming a Liberal Gwar!?

Yes, I think for the rest of today I am going to be a dirty hippy liberal, then I'll go back to Right Wing RaWhammer.

@ the OP: If someone tries this on you, remember to disallow their non human models or any helmeted models of theirs to fire at all, as they do not have Eyes to check LoS from at all.

Harder to hit a base on its side as well. This has to be the worst rule giving a realistic outcome I've seen in ages.

If you shoot at some guys you'd expect them to duck out of the line of fire, harder to hit/see etc. This doesn't translate well at all to a game of miniatures. I suppose GW thought the kiddies would have a hard time remembering what the markers meant.

Gwar! wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You put the models standing up to determine if you can see them.

Anyone saying otherwise is a TFG.

Those aren't the rules. Are you becoming a Liberal Gwar!?

Yes, I think for the rest of today I am going to be a dirty hippy liberal, then I'll go back to Right Wing RaWhammer.

@ the OP: If someone tries this on you, remember to disallow their non human models or any helmeted models of theirs to fire at all, as they do not have Eyes to check LoS from at all.

As long as my opponent agreed, I'd have no issue with laying them on their side (possibly block LOS for further shooting if there is intervening cover.) Seems to fit in well enough with the idea of 'going to the ground'.

Even if you want to be nice and OTT theres a minor flaw in this. The choice to go to ground is made after they are targeted. Your opponent still gets to shoot at them with that unit. It may help you survive from other shots but not the main unit shootin up yer boyz.

Che-Vito wrote:As long as my opponent agreed, I'd have no issue with laying them on their side (possibly block LOS for further shooting if there is intervening cover.) Seems to fit in well enough with the idea of 'going to the ground'.

I think the +1 to their cover save fits the idea of going to ground just fine. In fact I'd almost say this falls under the "modeling for advantage" category.

I might as well just lean my landraiders on their sides and screen my entire army with an AV14 wall.

Hmmm...what's the AV of the underside of a LR?

I believe bottom armor is represented by the rear facing, while top armor is represented by the sides.

I don't recall where i spotted this though so take with salt.

tetrisphreak wrote:I believe bottom armor is represented by the rear facing, while top armor is represented by the sides.

I don't recall where i spotted this though so take with salt.

It's not hard and fast rules, but that is what they have traditionally been done as.

Top as Sides is from Cityfight and from Barrage Weapons, while Rear as Bottom comes from the Mawloc.

bleh...you ruined my vision of landraiders being propelled across the battlefield with a bunch of naked space marine feet sticking out the bottom ala The Flintstones.

So it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Or more accurately AV14 all around.

Hmm, actually now I'm considering a conversion for the monolith I canibalized. Turn it into a looted monolith by using a bunch of boyz legs from my AoBR set underneath it and a grot spotter sticking up out of the hole in the top where the crystal goes...

Well, as soon as Games Workshop releases a FAQ for Tyranids...in 5 years or so.

Maybe then using Mawlocs to push Land Raiders into Lictors for "SUPRISE DEATH" would work...

I'm with Gwar on this, the cover save is already given by going to ground. Laying your models down to prevent LOS is cheesy at best, in our circle we either lay one down out of the squad or put a marker down. Typically, if the unit has gone to ground its done so in a terrain feature and it would be better to shoot at something else. That said, I don't know that there is anything stopping someone from laying them all on their sides; however, I would point out that they should mark exactly where the original bases were resting since they want to get that much advantage out of it.

Bavius wrote:I'm with Gwar on this, the cover save is already given by going to ground. Laying your models down to prevent LOS is cheesy at best, in our circle we either lay one down out of the squad or put a marker down. Typically, if the unit has gone to ground its done so in a terrain feature and it would be better to shoot at something else. That said, I don't know that there is anything stopping someone from laying them all on their sides; however, I would point out that they should mark exactly where the original bases were resting since they want to get that much advantage out of it.

Also if your playing Necrons how do you tell who's "gone to ground" and who's been shot and is awaiting WBB rolls.

Bavius wrote:I'm with Gwar on this, the cover save is already given by going to ground. Laying your models down to prevent LOS is cheesy at best, in our circle we either lay one down out of the squad or put a marker down. Typically, if the unit has gone to ground its done so in a terrain feature and it would be better to shoot at something else. That said, I don't know that there is anything stopping someone from laying them all on their sides; however, I would point out that they should mark exactly where the original bases were resting since they want to get that much advantage out of it.

Exactly. RAW, this is correct.
RAP, I don't care. If the opponent wants to lay them down to block subsequent shots at the unit...I'd agree to it. Flamers, etc. ftw.

Soup and a roll wrote:

Gwar! wrote:You put the models standing up to determine if you can see them.

Anyone saying otherwise is a TFG.

Those aren't the rules. Are you becoming a Liberal Gwar!?

Actually that is what the rules say, it says: "to represent this" you may lay them down, that doesn't mean that is how you now measure LOS etc. The rules also say that you get cover saves in certain situations because the unit would be diving behind cover etc, that doesn't mean you get free movements when you roll a cover save.