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Last night, I had a situation where I shot at a unit with an independent character, and caused the independent character and unit to become out of coherency from models removed.

Now, on his turn, my opponent claimed that in the movement phase, you can declare that the IC is leaving the squad, and since the IC is not within 2" (out of coherency) with the unit, he has automatically left. Now I read in the movement phase section, that units out of coherency MUST move back in coherency, and that the IC and unit must move back into coherency before leaving.

Which situation is right?

i would play that he can declare the IC leaving the squad and if not he just moves them back in to coherency

The thing is, it also says that a IC must obey unit coherency rules, so the IC must move back to coherency before leaving, but here's the brain scratcher, the IC was more than 10" away from the unit (they were in a line to avoid pie plates of death). He moves 6", but is still out of coherency, however, in the IC rules, it tells you that all a IC needs to do to leave the unit is to move more than 2" away from a model, as I see it, the model still must get within 2" coherency, then leave the subsequent turn.
My opponent thought differently however, i'm just wondering who is right?

Nobody knows.

Some play it that the IC has left the unit if he finds himself out of coherency.

Some play it that as the IC hasn't specifically left the unit (by moving away from it as specified in the IC rules) he must regain coherency before he can do something else.

Some play it that by moving the IC away from the unit, causing him to leave them, coherency is restored as at the end of the phase (which is when coherency is checked) everybody is in their required coherency.


The last two stick more closely to RAW, (to my mind the 'correct' option is the last one) but you'll likely come across people playing it differently whichever option you choose.

NoShoes wrote: but here's the brain scratcher, the IC was more than 10" away from the unit (they were in a line to avoid pie plates of death).

the rest of the unit can also move 6" to get back into Coherency - like is said i let the controlling play decide it he wants the Character to rejoin the squad or leave them

the only time i would not let this occur is when the unit lost more than 25% and then fail their subsequent morale check - the IC must fall back with the remainder of the unit whilst trying to move back into coherency

Like Insaniac writes, it's a confused mess.

However, I'd like to write in favor of an out of coherency IC being able to leave the unit. The rules for unit coherency state that the models in the unit have to maintain coherency and have to move to restore coherency as soon as possible (in rough language). The IC's rule says that the IC can leave a unit during the Movement phase by "moving out of coherency distance with it".

The rules for a unit which is out of coherency says "... the models in the unit must be moved in such a way that they restore coherency in their next Movement phase." The rules don't say that the individual models must move back into coherency distance, only that they "restore coherency". If the IC moves out of coherency distance with the unit and leaves the unit, then coherency is restored to the unit.

In short: The IC has to move to restore coherency, but it doesn't have to move back towards the unit (and can restore coherency by leaving the unit).

NoShoes wrote:Last night, I had a situation where I shot at a unit with an independent character, and caused the independent character and unit to become out of coherency from models removed.

Now, on his turn, my opponent claimed that in the movement phase, you can declare that the IC is leaving the squad, and since the IC is not within 2" (out of coherency) with the unit, he has automatically left. Now I read in the movement phase section, that units out of coherency MUST move back in coherency, and that the IC and unit must move back into coherency before leaving.

Which situation is right?

The IC doesn't declare that he is leaving the squad, he leaves the squad in the movement phase.

The shooting caused the unit to lose unit coherency and in the following movement phase they must be moved to restore coherency.

Now as Catachan_Devil said, if the unit lost 25% or more casualties in the opponent shooting phase, and failed their morale check, then they would fall back. All the models along with the IC because they are still one unit.

In the IC player's movement phase, the IC can leave the unit by moving out of coherency distance with it. So the IC player must either; move the unit to regain coherency by moving the models within 2" of each other or move the IC out of coherency distance wtih the unit. And since the IC is starting out of coherency it doesn't have to move that far.

Remember that the rule states that an IC has to move to leave a unit. Until the movement phase, they are still one unit because the IC can only leave the unit during the movement phase.

time wizard wrote:
In the IC player's movement phase, the IC can leave the unit by moving out of coherency distance with it. So the IC player must either; move the unit to regain coherency by moving the models within 2" of each other or move the IC out of coherency distance wtih the unit. And since the IC is starting out of coherency it doesn't have to move that far.

Almost 100% correct.


This is important\/
• While an independent character is part of a unit,
he must obey the usual coherency rules. The
combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of
the slowest model while they stay together.

This is more important\/
• An independent character can leave a unit during
the Movement phase by moving out of coherency
distance with it.

This is the one of mostiest importence!!!
• An independent character may not join or leave a
unit during the Shooting and Assault phases

And the sting
•If this happens, the models in the unit
must be moved in such a way that they restore
coherency in their next Movement phase.


So unfortunately if an IC finds themselfs out of coherency due to shooting he is still part of that unit.
He can't leave the unit except during his movment phase.
And a unit out of coherency must move back into it before anything else.

I will probably get shot down on RAW, but I think this is RAI.

Moving so as to restore unit coherency might also mean the IC to move out of the unit, thus the unit coherency is restored. After all, the rules do not prevent him from moving out of the unit when it's not in coherency, nor does it state that the movement to regain coherency has to be a re-group type of move.

So unfortunately if an IC finds themselfs out of coherency due to shooting he is still part of that unit.
He can't leave the unit except during his movment phase.
And a unit out of coherency must move back into it before anything else.

Please read what you've just posted your conclusion is not supported by the rules you posted in fact the opposite conclusion is. They have to restore coherency as soon as possible. Coherency is only checked at the end of the movement phase so that is the soonest they can restore coherency. Having the IC move away from the unit and leave the unit restores coherency. Yes he's was part of the unit at the start of the movement phase but no he is not part of the unit at the end of the movement when you check coherency.

Restoring coherency does not require the IC to be with 2" of the unit. He simply has to either be within 2" if part of the unit at the end of the movement phase or not part of the unit at the end of the movement phase...

I agree with the above. I also think this is one of the times I would ignore what the rules say even if they were conflicting as making an IC move back towards a unit before he can leave makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree that the IC is free to either leave (in which case he can move as he pleases, just having to end that move more than 2" away from a model in the unit), or stick with the unit. In the latter case, he is forced to move so as to regain coherency with the rest of the unit.

Catachan_Devil wrote:
the rest of the unit can also move 6" to get back into Coherency - like is said i let the controlling play decide it he wants the Character to rejoin the squad or leave them

the only time i would not let this occur is when the unit lost more than 25% and then fail their subsequent morale check - the IC must fall back with the remainder of the unit whilst trying to move back into coherency

I forgot to mention this, the unit was in difficult terrain (rolled a one to move), while the IC was out of terrain, leaving them 3" out of coherency.

The part which confused me and my opponent was the part on pg.48 which states that an IC must obey the usual coherency rules, which on pg.12 states that the unit must be moved back into coherency as soon as they have the opportunity. Since the IC was still part of the unit, surely they would have to move back into coherency before the IC can move away from the squad and leave?

I can see where you’re coming from, since “as soon as they have the opportunity” is pretty vague. If you play that to mean that squads out of coherency at the start of the movement phase have to move first to regain coherency, before any other units are allowed to move, I can understand why you would expect that the unit would have to move first, and the IC be stuck with it.

In practice, I always see “as soon as they have the opportunity” played that you CAN choose to move other units first in the movement phase. Just that during the movement phase you must eventually get around to trying to get that unit back in coherency.

NoShoes wrote:
I forgot to mention this, the unit was in difficult terrain (rolled a one to move), while the IC was out of terrain, leaving them 3" out of coherency.

The part which confused me and my opponent was the part on pg.48 which states that an IC must obey the usual coherency rules, which on pg.12 states that the unit must be moved back into coherency as soon as they have the opportunity. Since the IC was still part of the unit, surely they would have to move back into coherency before the IC can move away from the squad and leave?

The rules on page 12 say once a unit finishes moving the models must be in coherency. Then, if the unit is broken up and loses coherency (usually by shooting, as in your case) the unit has to be moved to restore coherency in their next movement phase. If they cannot, then they must move to restore coherency as soon as they have the opportunity. So first you get a chance to move them. If, as in your case, the unit can't due to difficult terrain, then they must try to regain coherency again as soon as they have the opportunity, like running in the shooting phase.

The IC makes it a bit different. If the models in the unit are out of coherency with each other and the IC, they models must move to regain coherency, but the IC can choose to either move to restore coherency with the unit if it wants to stay with the unit, or move out of coherency distance if it wishes to leave the unit. The other models in the unit have no such choice, they must move to restore coherency.

Thing is, RaW on pg48 tells you that the IC must obey standard coherency rules, so the IC cannot move 2" away and leave the unit before restoring coherency, however, some argue that the IC can choose to move away from the unit.

I think the general consensus is that the IC can choose to move away, but RaW, I don't think this is right, since the IC must move back into coherency as per the coherency rules, BEFORE moving away, since it tells you that the IC follows standard coherency rules.

Thing is, RaW on pg48 tells you that the IC must obey standard coherency rules, so the IC cannot move 2" away and leave the unit before restoring coherency, however, some argue that the IC can choose to move away from the unit.

I think the general consensus is that the IC can choose to move away, but RaW, I don't think this is right, since the IC must move back into coherency as per the coherency rules, BEFORE moving away, since it tells you that the IC follows standard coherency rules.

Have you read the thread? Why are people still trying to argue this? NOTHING in the rules requires models to move back into 2" coherency! It require "coherency to be restored". For normal units this then requires them to be within 2" of each other, but for an IC simply leaving the unit would indeed restore coherency.

It doesn;t state move back into 2" or move back into unit coherency it states restore coherency. As in make the unit coherent. The uniot is not coherent at the start of the movement phase4. THe IC states he's l;eaving the unit. the unit is now coherent again, i.e. coherency has been restored!

How are you not getting this?

FlingitNow wrote:

Thing is, RaW on pg48 tells you that the IC must obey standard coherency rules, so the IC cannot move 2" away and leave the unit before restoring coherency, however, some argue that the IC can choose to move away from the unit.

I think the general consensus is that the IC can choose to move away, but RaW, I don't think this is right, since the IC must move back into coherency as per the coherency rules, BEFORE moving away, since it tells you that the IC follows standard coherency rules.

Have you read the thread? Why are people still trying to argue this? NOTHING in the rules requires models to move back into 2" coherency! It require "coherency to be restored". For normal units this then requires them to be within 2" of each other, but for an IC simply leaving the unit would indeed restore coherency.

It doesn;t state move back into 2" or move back into unit coherency it states restore coherency. As in make the unit coherent. The uniot is not coherent at the start of the movement phase4. THe IC states he's l;eaving the unit. the unit is now coherent again, i.e. coherency has been restored!

How are you not getting this?

Ah, that makes much more sense, I must have missed whoever posted this response earlier.

FlingitNow wrote:The uniot is not coherent at the start of the movement phase4. THe IC states he's l;eaving the unit. the unit is now coherent again, i.e. coherency has been restored!

Those are some angry typos, Fling. Calm down! It's not good for your heart.

Those are some angry typos, Fling. Calm down! It's not good for your heart.

I'm not angry just totally malcoordinated!

Soup and a roll wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:The uniot is not coherent at the start of the movement phase4. THe IC states he's l;eaving the unit. the unit is now coherent again, i.e. coherency has been restored!

Those are some angry typos, Fling. Calm down! It's not good for your heart.

Aww man. Fling, Soup, you both owe me a new keyboard.

I vow never to be drinking coke near your posts again!