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I have been struggling for the past week to come up with a load out for my 2 teams of crisis suits and my 2 teams of Shas'els and body guards that would function as ant-meq and anti TMC...

Here are my initial thoughts...

03 Crisis Suits: Fusion Gun, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Team Leader: Fusion Gun, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Bonding Knife

03 Crisis Suits: Fusion Gun, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Team Leader: Fusion Gun, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Bonding Knife

01 Shas'el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Multi Tracker
02 Bodyguards: TL-Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator

01 Shas'el: Air Fragmentation Projector, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Multi Tracker
02 Bodyguards: TL-Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator

I want to avoid Shield drones right now because they make the above units flee more often than I would like.

I am also Running 3 broadsides with the following...

03 Broadsides: Railguns, TL-Plasma Rifles, Targeting Array

The plasmas are useless on the broadsides. Railguns are just as good since if you can rapid then they will charge you next turn & you have already failed. So for less points take the 4 Str 5 shots, it'll make them better against non-MeQ's.

Fusion gun has the exact same problem.

To kill MeQ's and most other things bring fire knives (Multi-Tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Team leader w/ shield drones)

If you are having trouble keeping your units on the board just bounce (jump out from cover / behind LoS blocking object, shoot, jump back)

Your biggest issue is you are trying to dedicate crisis teams to anti-MeQ when you're overlooking a unit that is much better, Fire Warriors in a devilfish. With the fish your effective rapid fire range becomes 24" & I don't know much that can withstand 24+ Str5 shots, especially if you markerlight & use your FW squads in groups of 2 (48 Str5 shots).

I have to agree with Shas'O Dorian. The way to kill MEQ is not really plasma. It's volume of fire. Why? Because if I see a unit packed to the hilt with AP3 weaponry, I'm just going to hug cover and throw missiles at it until it dies. I'll take a couple of 4+ cover saves in lieu of 10+ armor saves any day!

Now, if you're dead set on using plasma-equivalents to kill Marines, I have two words for you: supporting markerlights. Markerlights can chop my cover save down to 6+, or eliminate it entirely.
Of course, this requires a lot more strategy and coordination than simply pointing the plasma at me and pulling the trigger. You have to protect your markerlights in addition to your suits. More work, but more reward, as well.

The current Meta is Blood Angels and Space wolves... So if their hugging cover and throwing missiles, then they are engaging is a range fight with me...

The fusion blasters are more for all the vehicles that are in a MEQS list... I got to be able to take out a LR consistently... In addition it lets me be able to take out the Doom quicker. I decided against Fireknife because I was tired of allowing 3+ saves for TMC and I needed to be able to deal with completely meched out armies.

In my list I have a pathfinder squad of 6 and a firewarrior squad of 6 with 3 markerlights in it...

Plasma on the Broadsides was only done because blood angels can get to my castle one their second turn and marines with FNP can absorb a lot of firepower that does not ignore both of their saves. The only thing buying me time with the broadsides is my layers of firewarriors in front of my broadsides...

I do not think I need more Anti-GEQs because the Firewarriors can take out a unit in 1 turn, 2 Hammerheads can do the same thing with submunition rounds and twin burst cannons, and 6 steal suits with targeting arrays also whittles down GEQ units quickly...

I think you got it just about right.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:The plasmas are useless on the broadsides. Railguns are just as good since if you can rapid then they will charge you next turn & you have already failed. So for less points take the 4 Str 5 shots, it'll make them better against non-MeQ's.

Fusion gun has the exact same problem.

To kill MeQ's and most other things bring fire knives (Multi-Tracker, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Team leader w/ shield drones)

If you are having trouble keeping your units on the board just bounce (jump out from cover / behind LoS blocking object, shoot, jump back)

Your biggest issue is you are trying to dedicate crisis teams to anti-MeQ when you're overlooking a unit that is much better, Fire Warriors in a devilfish. With the fish your effective rapid fire range becomes 24" & I don't know much that can withstand 24+ Str5 shots, especially if you markerlight & use your FW squads in groups of 2 (48 Str5 shots).

I disagree with just about everything said here. Plasma rifle's are great on broadsides, I would actually go one step further though, and give them the multi-tracker. That way you get 3 shots within 12 inch's and 2 shots out to 24.

Just using some basic odds 48 str5 shots with no markerlight support kills 2.7 blood angel's assault marines with feel no pain. Using enough markerlight shots (4) so that both squads hit on a 2+ nets you a grand total of 4.44 dead jump pack marines with feel no pain. The other 5-6 models will then just shred at least one of your squads if not both (ie if the priest lives detatch and go into one squad while the assault squad goes into the other squad).

Against just a basic marine you have decent odds (on average 9 dead guys) of making the unit combat ineffective. Between plague marines, and now blood angels, rate of fire just isn't going to cut it anymore you need the ap2.

@OP-I agree with warmasters math and analysis. There is also the added in-close mobility of the plasmas.

If the enemy are close and you want to pull them 6" one way or the other, you sacrifice the single railgun shot for the rapid fire plasma and move your team to pull the enemy the dirction needed(Like off of an objective).


As to fusions on crisis suits, I posted some links in your other thread to answer how much I like the concept.

Warmaster wrote:
Between plague marines, and now blood angels, rate of fire just isn't going to cut it anymore you need the ap2.

Now you are tailoring the list to just 2 out of many possible opponents, which I feel is wrong. Against BA yes the plasma are better. Against plague marines, no you should have already killed the rhinos they are in & once you have done that they are much less of a threat, since they are foot slogging now and you have more turns in which to kill them before they close. Broadsides are Anti-tank not anti-MeQ that is what XV8's are for. The extra 10 points per plasma you pay on them can go to seeker missiles for blowing up transports if you need it or an easy wound on a TMC.

Also, what about the horde armies that are rushing in for CC? For 10 points less I can kill more orks / tyranids / daemons AND have +1 BS to insure the armor dies. If you tailor your army purely vs MeQ's you will fail miserably against horde armies.
(Yes I understand the post is help with his XV8's being anti-MeQ, but I try to help people build a better list overall not just against a couple opponents, treat every list you write as if it were a tournament list IMO)

@OP
As for taking out AV 14 I find that a squad or two or 2-3 piranhas with disruption pods & fusion blasters does the job quite well. I turbo boost 24" & get a 4+ cover (yes they are fragile) and next turn move 12" forward & blast the LR with a couple meltas. This will also free up your XV8's to provide close range fire support (rapid fire plasma & an autocannon equivilent) into anything that gets close to your army (the BA you are so worried about)

I notice you have an Airburst on your 2nd shas'el, I recommend against it, not useful enough in my experiance give him a missile pod instead it can better pop light vehicles or tougher infantry. Also give both shas'el the target array for +1 BS & make the multi tracker hard wired (very worth it in my experience)

I know you don't like drones but another good reason to take them I forgot to mention is the dread Str8 + weapons. You fail a 4+ save & you're ID'd but if the drone fails it you just lose a drone.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Warmaster wrote:
Between plague marines, and now blood angels, rate of fire just isn't going to cut it anymore you need the ap2.

Now you are tailoring the list to just 2 out of many possible opponents, which I feel is wrong. Against BA yes the plasma are better. Against plague marines, no you should have already killed the rhinos they are in & once you have done that they are much less of a threat, since they are foot slogging now and you have more turns in which to kill them before they close. Broadsides are Anti-tank not anti-MeQ that is what XV8's are for. The extra 10 points per plasma you pay on them can go to seeker missiles for blowing up transports if you need it or an easy wound on a TMC.

Also, what about the horde armies that are rushing in for CC? For 10 points less I can kill more orks / tyranids / daemons AND have +1 BS to insure the armor dies. If you tailor your army purely vs MeQ's you will fail miserably against horde armies.
(Yes I understand the post is help with his XV8's being anti-MeQ, but I try to help people build a better list overall not just against a couple opponents, treat every list you write as if it were a tournament list IMO)

The plasma on broadsides helps way more than just against ba and plague marines. It's also usefull for nidzilla lists, daemonzilla lists, the uses are staggering. Plus the additional str6 shot out to 24 helps against rhino rush, dark eldar raiders, land speeders, ork trukks. The plasma meshs with the rail gun way more than the sms done. The only downside is the fact that the sms+ass gives you a mobile platform instead of a stationary platform (although the plasmasides can still walk and shoot out to 24 for one shot). I don't like seeker missiles, my markerlight hits are very valuable and I would rather expend them for upping bs or reducing cover.

I don't tool for meq but I make it so that my armies can effect everyone. I would rather give plasma to my broadsides, and give my crisis suits flamer, fusion gun and suicide them. Barring that plasma/fusion gun/multi-tracker jsj, and then use tons of kroot. Kroot are amazing against other horde armies, as long as they aren't taking leaderhip tests they work great. Also rapid firing fire warriors catching geq out of cover will be a hurt on them. Your 24 fire warriors in devilfish you posted earlier for example.

having fusion and plasma on suits without multi-trackers is not accomplshing much really. Giving the team leader both with a hard wired multi-tracker and the two base suits twin linked plasma will go further, or go with the base fireknife package (although without marker lights to boost their BS 3 it can get frustrating.)

I'd also probably lose all the shield generators from everything except HQ's and put a HW Drone Controler on the team leader with two shield drones, give the team eader a targetting array to make the most of shooting both weapons.

You'll hug cover and shoot missiles at them? Really? Have fun getting roasted by plasma after the markerlights reduce your cover save to 0.

SW and BA are both pretty much hard counters to Tau though, BA are too fast with FNP to effectively deal with in your 1-2 rounds of shooting you'll get, and SW can Drop pod in a RP to JotWW your broadsides away, make damn near the entire board dangerous terrain for 85% of your army, and send scouts with meltas off your back edge.

In my opinion the Tau codex will need some pretty massive overhauls to be able to deal with the closing speed 5E armies possess.

Oh, I'm not sure I'd take Dpods on piranha, you're either Turbo boosting for a 4+ anyway, or you're inside the Dpods effective range to shoot it's melta.

Oh, I see you want to avoid shield drones, so ignore that part

@ OP, heres a list you may want to check out (it's 2,000 points) and I find it works well, though for my taste I drop some of the kroot hounds in favor of shield drones, but since you don't want them it shouldn't be too big a problem.

http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2008/09/my-tau-empire.html

What do you think of Tau Players that Tailor their list against MEQS and TMC...

I personally believe if you include 6 Stealth teams and 24 firewarriors and at least 1 hammer head, you will be fine in the anti-GEQS department.