500pts of Dark Eldar

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**Riffzor**

HQ:

Dracon w. Poisened Blades
9 Dark Eldar Warriors
Raider
Dark Lance x 2

197pts

Troops:

Dark Eldar Raider Squad

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
Dark Lance
Raider
Sybarite

151pts

Dark Eldar Raider Squad

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
Dark Lance
Raider
Sybarite

151pts

Total: 499pts

So, basicly this is a fast-attacking force following the basic DE tacticts of trying to out-flank the enemy, Dark Lances taking care of armoured troops and vehicles whilst the Warriors will hunt for lightly armoured infantry. If there is any good cover on the oponent's half such as barriers or so, I could try to swoop in and position warriors in them before the enemy does so using the fast Raiders, otherwise using the 'normal' Skimmer-tank strategy of putting it infront of my warriors so that the enemy will draw fire towards it (Even though it's probable to pop down if they've got any heavy weapons at all).

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rapid replying today, eh?

Anyhow I've been thinking of upgrading the Raiders' Dark Lances to Disintegrators, removing the Sybarite upgrades and the Poisened blades, as those work both for Vehicles and Anti-Infantry, and because the Warriors have Dark Lances too, giving me more shots.

Thoughts/suggestions?

**Thor665**

Greetings and welcome to the Dark Eldar. I will first off, as is my usual wont, direct you to check out my DE Tactica here on the site (link is in my sig) which will give you a lot of good basic core info on DE builds and basic tactics. A lot of what I'm saying to you here is covered there as well and it can help ease you into generalship of one of the more difficult armies to master. Now, to the list;

Riffzor wrote:Dracon w. Poisened Blades
9 Dark Eldar Warriors
Raider
Dark Lance x 2

Using the Dracon as a glorified Sybarite? Frankly I'd probably drop a couple Warriors to give the Dracon a better h2h weapon and a gun of his own which will overall make this unit superior.

Dark Eldar Raider Squad

10 Dark Eldar Warriors
Dark Lance
Raider
Sybarite

Please do me a favor and go look in the Codex at the stat line of a Sybarite. Now look at the stat line of the basic Warrior. Now try to explain the reason to take a Sybarite if you opt not to give him any wargear upgrades. The purpose of the Sybarite is to wield wargear - lacking wargear he is an overpriced Warrior - you don't need him. Either hook him up with some h2h boosting equipment (not recommended) or drop him to save points.

Overall your army has some good anti-vehicle (6 lances) and a lot of very weak options for dealing with infantry. I would suggest doing something to increase your ability to damage infantry hordes. Dropping the Sybarite and 4 Warriors from each Raider squad plus 5 from the retinue would give you the points (off the top of my head this is 120+ points) to buy an additional unit, which would dramatically increase the army's survivability and damage output as you could get a Ravager, or Wyches, or more troop slots, or any of a variety of deadly options the army has. I would personally suggest a Ravager with 3 Dissies as that will increase your vehicle spam and also give you a potent tool for anti-infantry. You'll just have to baby it a lot since you only will have one.

So, basicly this is a fast-attacking force following the basic DE tacticts of trying to out-flank the enemy, Dark Lances taking care of armoured troops and vehicles whilst the Warriors will hunt for lightly armoured infantry

Though of course your Warriors will be obligated to fire their dark lances at the light infantry. If the Warriors are meant to kill base infantry they shouldn't be equipped to deal with armored vehicles and heavy infantry which is how you currently have them configured.

If there is any good cover on the oponent's half such as barriers or so, I could try to swoop in and position warriors in them before the enemy does so using the fast Raiders,

With your current army I would advise against this. Your build is a gunline build - you should not be moving around much as then you won't be able to fire your lances.

otherwise using the 'normal' Skimmer-tank strategy of putting it infront of my warriors so that the enemy will draw fire towards it (Even though it's probable to pop down if they've got any heavy weapons at all).

Generally speaking I advocate leaving your men inside their vehicle. This protects them from anti-infantry fire (though I'll admit a lot of that can damage Raiders as well, but it is still better protection then a cover save or our 5+ armor) also, near the end of the game by being in a vehicle they can escape incoming assault troops and/or easily snag objectives to claim the win.

Anyhow I've been thinking of upgrading the Raiders' Dark Lances to Disintegrators, removing the Sybarite upgrades and the Poisened blades, as those work both for Vehicles and Anti-Infantry, and because the Warriors have Dark Lances too, giving me more shots.

If you remove the poisoned blades then there is no reason to have a Dracon other then for the extra lance in the retinue as you'll leave him without any weapons at all. At all and you might as well save some points and get a Haemonculi and just buy an additional Troop selection instead of the retinue, you'll lose a Lance but will at least have those Warriors now be a scoring unit unlike the retinue.

For dealing with vehicles and Tyranid Monstrous Creatures I'd rather have more lances then a few Dissies. This can depend on what you're fighting against, of course. Do your opponent's bring a lot of vehicles/MCs? Then stick to lances. If they are all running foot hordes mostly then get some Dissies. If they run mixed lists then just be aware it will take 3-4 lance shots to accomplish something worthwhile versus most vehicles, so your current army can deal with maybe about 2 vehicles a turn (and by 'deal' I don't mean destroy, I simply mean weakening their threat). If you adjust your list for the Dissies you'll probably only be able to deal with about one vehicle a turn presuming all your lances can fire at it.

**Riffzor**

*drops jaw* ... ... ... Alright, it's not often I meet someone whom actually writes more than me and continues to make sence all the way through it. I looked through your tactica and... Good god.

At first glance I thought Eldar to be simple, but just looking through that tactica of yours made me view them as... Eldars with less options but that still can kick their butts if one knows how to play them.

If it wouldn't be too much of a bother, Thor, could you perhaps write me a 500pt list which mainly will face IG/SoB, Necrons and Orks? It feels as if it would take me ages to find a good list and know exactly what to do with them without a bit of guidance. *puppy-eyes*

Thanks a lot for the help!

**Thor665**

As a general rule I try to avoid writing lists as there are so many variables to list writing. A good list for my play style might not be a good list for yours and vice versa.

That said, I'm willing to offer some thoughts if you'll answer the following;

1. What type of army do you like to play? Do you like gunlines or assault rush? DE can be very shooty or very assaulty and even do a very solid mix of both, but the armies play very different and it generally helps to pick a build that is similar to how you inherently prefer to play.

2. What models do you have? I could build you an absolutely perfect guaranteed to win list (don't hold your breath) and it won't help a whit if I include 3 maxed Scourge units and you don't own any.

Basically I'm looking for you to lay out the parameters of what you like to play and what you have to play with, and at that point we can work to give you a list that is hopefully functional within both.

**Riffzor**

Cheers.

1: I've always found shootyness to be easier to play with than assaulting into CC, although I know that sometimes I must be prepared to be assaulted by my oponent and prefers to have something to deal with that. If it is speed against orks, to sit in the Raiders with my warriors and shoot until they're too close in which case I'll flat-out move away from them, or if it means I should have wyches ready to counter the assault.

2: None, I'm going to build this army from nothingness.

**Insanityphr33k**

Whateva thor said is correct. however i will show you a quick 750 list and you can take out what you look or put it what you feel is more interesting. This army is played more as a gunline then anything, but i do move them alot. It depends on the army im facing. As thor said, this list might not work for you. However if you take out a ravager or 2 you should be set for 500 point games. The ravagers are there to sit back and shoot dark lances at anything that comes in range. The dracon is there to take down any somewhat assaulty units, and also shoot more lances. the troops are also to..shoot more lances.

welcome to DE. We like lances.

H.Q.

Dracon 185
Tormentor helm (+1 A)
Punisher (power weapon +1S)
Shadow field
Raider w horrorfex
5 Warriors (2 w/ dark lances)

Troops

Raider squad 105
5 warriors
1 lance
horrorfex

Raider squad 105
5 warriors
1 lance
Horrorfex

Heavy support 315

RAVAGER

RAVAGER

RAVAGER

**Riffzor**

13 Lances and 11 Warriors with splinter rifles? xD Awsome.

Although what on earth would such force do when a green tide of Orks comes charging? =P 750pts of Orks playing green tide style would be something like 100 Orks and a Warboss. Since DE have 50% chance of hiting, I'd get down about 6-7 Orks per turn with the Dark Lances.

And what about Imperial Guards? They too can come with tons of infantry whom will have grenade launchers and such, and those Ravagers are pretty fragile. =P

**SwanCo**

havent read through all the other posts yet so this may have been covered, but thor pretty much summed everything up.

I'd recomend using a retinue of inccubi for your Dracon as well as giving them a raider. that provides you with a group of shock troops that can hack and slash their way through almost any opposing force

**ChrisCP**

Riffzor wrote:13 Lances and 11 Warriors with splinter rifles? xD Awsome.

Although what on earth would such force do when a green tide of Orks comes charging? =P 750pts of Orks playing green tide style would be something like 100 Orks and a Warboss. Since DE have 50% chance of hiting, I'd get down about 6-7 Orks per turn with the Dark Lances.

And what about Imperial Guards? They too can come with tons of infantry whom will have grenade launchers and such, and those Ravagers are pretty fragile. =P

If you're worried about mass infantry then the ravagers in the 750 point list just need to take 2/3 dizzies as Thor suggested before I think? Their their Str7 AP2 blasts, nuff said.

**Riffzor**

ChrisCP wrote:
Riffzor wrote:13 Lances and 11 Warriors with splinter rifles? xD Awsome.

Although what on earth would such force do when a green tide of Orks comes charging? =P 750pts of Orks playing green tide style would be something like 100 Orks and a Warboss. Since DE have 50% chance of hiting, I'd get down about 6-7 Orks per turn with the Dark Lances.

And what about Imperial Guards? They too can come with tons of infantry whom will have grenade launchers and such, and those Ravagers are pretty fragile. =P

If you're worried about mass infantry then the ravagers in the 750 point list just need to take 2/3 dizzies as Thor suggested before I think? Their their Str7 AP2 blasts, nuff said.

Problem is that I won't play 750pts for quite a while, right now I'm trying to force some friends into playing, and they agreed to 250pts each vs me with 500pts. =s

However I noticed that my Local gamestore had some pretty wierd point-matches, 600 and 1100pts o.O I always thought it was 250, 500, 750, 1000, 1250, 1500 and so on.

**SwanCo**

standard match at my LFGS is 1850, second most played being 1000, i rarely if ever see a game under 750 points

**Riffzor**

I guess your LFGS is larger than mine.

We've got a couple of small tables for TCG's, one table for LotR/WHFB and one for WH40K + a small table where the staff usually leaves some models and dice where people can try the game out (Apparently very popular, making several kids want to start playing and even seems to amuse their parents!)

Apart from that they've got the entire GW stock, quite a lot of TCG's and wierd Magazines.

I'm not sure but I think there's one small point and one larger point battle for each of LotR, WHFB and WH40K per month, usually around 500-600pts for small ones and 1000-11000 for the big ones.

I think the 'tournament' this month is tomorrow, there were like 5-6 people signed up for the two different 40K ones when I was there... Tuesday I think.

Anyhow, there are two things I've read about a long time ago which I'm curious about, one being the Whych DE army, where they somehow get Wyches as Troops and Warriors as Elites, I can't find that in my Codex.

The other thing is simular, I read about an all-Kroot army, I'm not sure where or when that was, but it seemed pretty cool.

Is either of the two allowed?

**SwanCo**

the wych based army is shown under special charectors look under kruegglah the vile, she taked the place of the arcon and allows for that play style...personally i prefer airforce but that one works well

**Riffzor**

Err.... What page is she supposed to be on? I can't find her in my Codex o.O

**Thor665**

Does your Codex have the white stamp on the front of a skull that says 2nd edition? If not you're playing with the old DE Codex.

**Riffzor**

Erm... No stamp.

**Thor665**

Riffzor wrote:Cheers.

1: I've always found shootyness to be easier to play with than assaulting into CC, although I know that sometimes I must be prepared to be assaulted by my oponent and prefers to have something to deal with that. If it is speed against orks, to sit in the Raiders with my warriors and shoot until they're too close in which case I'll flat-out move away from them, or if it means I should have wyches ready to counter the assault.

2: None, I'm going to build this army from nothingness.

So mostly shooty, a touch of assault, and sky is the limit for unit choice?

Here's a footslogging 500 point DE list I helped another player build a few months ago - he took first place with it at a local tourney. It's a very affordable list to build and has a lot of answers to other 500 point armies and most assuredly focuses on shooting.

Haemonculi
Scissorhands, Combat Drugs, Destructor

10 Warriors
Splinter Cannon Blaster

10 Warriors
Splinter Cannon Blaster

10 Warriors
2 Dark Lances

Ravager
3 Disintegrators

The basic tactic is you sit back and shoot the living bejeezus out of your opponent with the Ravager and Lances - as he tries to come get you the firepower of the S.Cannons and eventually blasters will be felt. The Haemy is there to move forward, flame, and engage any enemy unit that is getting too close to your lines. By popping some combat drugs for an extra attack and re-rolling misses or maybe the initiative boost he can have 5 attacks on the charge, wounding on 2+ and can either re-roll any misses or always strike first (or both if you're gutsy) which should dampen any assault army trying to get to grips with you. Conversely, the Warrior squads are very mobile and can move forward using terrain to cover themselves as they can close the line with any army that is capable of outshooting the lances and Ravager.

The footslogging list above is a good and affordable way to try out DE as it won't hurt your pocket much to build it - here's an alternate and more expensive option;

Haemonculi
Scissorhands, Destructor

5 Wyches
Wych Weapons
Blaster
Raider

5 man Raider Squad
Dark Lance
Raider

5 man Raider Squad
Dark Lance
Raider

Ravager
3 Disentegrators

Haemy goes in the Wych boat. Another solid gunline build that will give you options. The Wyches are there to act as a weak form of Gunboat or to charge a unit to tie it up for a turn while your shooting units move away. The Haemy can join the Wych assault if you want to try to win it, or he can stay in the Raider and drop flame templates on stuff. For armies that are too slow to catch you the Haemy and Wyches stay in their boat and just shoot up whatever you need. The Raider squads lay out a lot of lance fire and move flat out to contest/claim objectives at the end. The Ravager is there for fire support. You could also drop the Wyches to buy a 2nd Ravager if you don't feel a need for the tarpit unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Riffzor wrote:Erm... No stamp.

You've got the old Codex then. Wyches work differently now, plus we've got special characters and vehicle upgrade options now, as well as the whole Wyche Cult option.

**Riffzor**

Woah.. I agree with Dashofpepper in your Siggy.

Cheers mate, that's some really nice advice.

**SwanCo**

Oh hey i was playing a game just now and when looking through my dex i realised i gave you the wrong info, its not Kruellagh who gives you the witch army, its lelith

**Riffzor**

Yeah but I need to buy a new Codex, apparently I've got the old one >.<

**Thor665**

SwanCo wrote:Oh hey i was playing a game just now and when looking through my dex i realised i gave you the wrong info, its not Kruellagh who gives you the witch army, its lelith

To clarify more, it's Lelith because she's an Archite - the Archite and Dracite also open up the Wych Cult army option.

**Riffzor**

I still can't see anything without the newer Codex. =<

Are the Wyches the same in the two codices when it comes to rules and characteristics?

**SwanCo**

im not sure, if you give me charectoristics (be sure NOT to post point values or you can get in trouble) i can tell you if they're the same

**Thor665**

The answer is no. Their point cost and the way Wych Weapons worked changed.

**Shatter.proof**

Listen to Thor665, he is the Dark Eldar god.

**SwanCo**

Shatter.proof wrote:Listen to Thor665, he is the Dark Eldar god.

So true...i would have lost every game with mine if i hadn't listened to him