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I was wondering in terms of RAW, it says for example in the wolf priest's profile say's any unit he joins gets the "preferred enemy" rule but does clarify it is lost if he leaves the unit? same with commader Dantes surgical strike which allows any unit he has joined the Hit and Run special rule. So i was wondering in RAW terms does the unit lose the ability once the IC is gone or do they keep it? (strictly RAW terms)

Grey elder wrote:I was wondering in terms of RAW, it says for example in the wolf priest's profile say's any unit he joins gets the "preferred enemy" rule but does clarify it is lost if he leaves the unit? same with commader Dantes surgical strike which allows any unit he has joined the Hit and Run special rule. So i was wondering in RAW terms does the unit lose the ability once the IC is gone or do they keep it? (strictly RAW terms)

Strictly RaW, they lose it, because the IC is no longer joined to them.

Does it not say joins and joins only? It doesn't specify what happens when they split as far as I know.

An independent character joins a unit that has different special rules to that character. Eg Stubborn
The unit's special rules are not conferred on the IC, neither are the IC's rules conferred on the unit.

For example, if a Captain joins a Scout Squad the Captain doesn't gain Infiltrate, unless he happens to be Kayvan Shrike....

Corennus wrote:An independent character joins a unit that has different special rules to that character. Eg Stubborn
The unit's special rules are not conferred on the IC, neither are the IC's rules conferred on the unit.

For example, if a Captain joins a Scout Squad the Captain doesn't gain Infiltrate, unless he happens to be Kayvan Shrike....

...except Dante DOES give HaR to the squad he joins.

Well he's a Blood Angel. They do things differently

Well for wolf priest where does it say the unit he joined loses his war oath special rule and for dante his rules includes past tense which means he can die and they still keep his special rule.

Anyone else think BA just got a little stupid crazy powerful?

Corennus wrote:Anyone else think BA just got a little stupid crazy powerful?

No, because that's not how Dante's rule works, no matter how you try and spin it. No IC = No Special Rule.

No I was talking about the whole Codex. Terminators getting special rules on top of normal rules. Deep Striking Land Raiders, Sanguinor, Death Company, Sanguine Guard......the list goes on.

Compare this to Black Templars, Ultramarines, even Space Wolves....

Huh? Wolves are *far* more powerful than BA, as SW dont pay for everything they have which BA do.

DS LR are a complete and utter joke for competitive play. A potential for something coming in turn two, so you may get a charge off turn 3, versus a pretty much h'teed turn two assault? uh, no. Thats ok.

Compare it to dark angels

Corennus wrote:No I was talking about the whole Codex. Terminators getting special rules on top of normal rules. Deep Striking Land Raiders, Sanguinor, Death Company, Sanguine Guard......the list goes on.

Compare this to Black Templars, Ultramarines, even Space Wolves....

Sanguinary Guard... like terminators with jump packs, but no invulnerable save. Death Company has always been around, except now they are crap. Deep striking land raiders is the best way to lose... the list goes on. Space Wolves are just as good as Blood Angels.

Well i've got the Codex:SW and it seems so far (haven't got Codex:BA btw) the most balanced list outside of Codex:SM

Just seems to me there's always some strange rule the BA are employing now to make them THE army to collect.

HURRY UP BLACK TEMPLARS NEW CODEX!

Gwar! wrote:

Corennus wrote:Anyone else think BA just got a little stupid crazy powerful?

No, because that's not how Dante's rule works, no matter how you try and spin it. No IC = No Special Rule.

Gwar look at the wording for dantes rule it says any unit he joined so, if he joined a unit then left he still counts as having joined the unit and thus granting him his special rule be he alive or lying dead at the foot of some crazy wolf lord.

Like he said, no matter how you twist it, the answer is still no..................

Ok, so I'm putting it into my BA FAQ:

BA.53.xx – Q: Does a unit Dante has joined continue to benefit from “Surgical Strike” even if Dante is killed or otherwise leaves the unit?
A: No. Dante has to be attached to the unit for them to benefit. [Clarification]
It can, however, be interpreted that any unit he joins over the course of the game will continue to benefit, even if he dies or leaves the unit.

I was going to add a fun remark about people who do interpret that way, something involving Crayons maybe, but then I decided not to be mean.

@Grey: By your logic, if Dante joins a unit in one game, then in every game thereafter the unit benefits from the rule, as it doesn't say "until the end of the game".

Ahahahh, but they deserve it.

I had a painfull experience with Dante about this rule. The unit consisted of Dante, 5 Sanguinary Guards and a Sanguinary Priest (for extra protection). They deep striked in front of a tank, no scatter, then got assaulted by a Daemon Prince. Since the Hit and Run rule is lost when an independent character (Sanguinary Priest) has joined, I was unable to get them out of certain death. All of them had Strength 4 with power weapons or without power weapons... useless against the high toughness of the Daemon Prince.

Baxx wrote:Ahahahh, but they deserve it.

I had a painfull experience with Dante about this rule. The unit consisted of Dante, 5 Sanguinary Guards and a Sanguinary Priest (for extra protection). They deep striked in front of a tank, no scatter, then got assaulted by a Daemon Prince. Since the Hit and Run rule is lost when an independent character (Sanguinary Priest) has joined, I was unable to get them out of certain death. All of them had Strength 4 with power weapons or without power weapons... useless against the high toughness of the Daemon Prince.

Actually, he would have had H&R.

Dantes rule gives any unit he has joined H&R. The Sangunary Priest is also part of the unit he has joined, so would have also benefited.

What the USR rules do is if an IC without Hit and Run joins a unit that has Hit and Run "natively", as in its a special rule in their profile, the unit loses the rule (and vice versa). Since Dante gives the H&R rule to anyone he is joined to, it's not an issue.

How do you mean "useless"? S4 power weapons can hurt anything up to T7 on a 5 or 6, and most ddaemon princes are only toughness 5.

Sure, you were going second, but you could have put a LOT of hurt on the DP.

And, as was mentioned, the IC does have H&R in this case, as the special rule confers it. Unless you play INAT where they will likely rule that attached ICs *dont* get it, as they interpret page 48 in a VERY weird way.

No, I could not have put alot of hurt on the DP, and he had T6 too. They did nothing, except getting killed. Dante died last.

However, thanks for the tip. Next time they'll fly away first.

Gwar! wrote:

I was going to add a fun remark about people who do interpret that way, something involving Crayons maybe, but then I decided not to be mean.

@Grey: By your logic, if Dante joins a unit in one game, then in every game thereafter the unit benefits from the rule, as it doesn't say "until the end of the game".

1. I hope you mean to also comment on the people who wrote the rules and involve crayons or somthing just as colourful when doing so.
2. Since by my logic Vangurd just became awsome lol( just kidding). What happens with the Wolf Priest Oath of war ability were i every unit he joins the recieves the prefererred enemy rule? Where does it say they lose the rule? Iam just curious.

How did Vanguard just get better?

jbunny wrote:How did Vanguard just get better?

They get better after being in dante unit for one turn and for the rest of the games you play with them they dont scatter and get hit and run till they faq BA codex. SWEET

Do you really think GW's going to put a question in a FAQ saying that a unit doesn't keep a special rule it gained from an IC in a completely different battle?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Do you really think GW's going to put a question in a FAQ saying that a unit doesn't keep a special rule it gained from an IC in a completely different battle?

What I was saying was that hopefully they will change the wording thats all.
(btw I take it you dont like my opinion on most things MasterSlowPoke )

There are too many people with that avatar for me to ever remember which one is which.

You're so *silly* Grey elder...

You always post things that you think are RaW silliness, when they are infact, perfectly clear, then you say "lololgwwasntclearenuff".

It clearly states that when he is joined to the unit, they gain the rule. Not any other time. You think you have found a way around the rules, though you have only found another way to make me dislike you more.

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Also, S4 wound T6/7 only on a 6.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:You're so *silly* Grey elder...

You always post things that you think are RaW silliness, when they are infact, perfectly clear, then you say "lololgwwasntclearenuff".

It clearly states that when he is joined to the unit, they gain the rule. Not any other time. You think you have found a way around the rules, though you have only found another way to make me dislike you more.

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Also, S4 wound T6/7 only on a 6.

Read Dante's wording on his special rules it clearly states any unit he has joined gets the special rule. Also could you please state were in the rule book it say's or state's how they loose the special rule conferred upon them by means of an independent character's special rule.
Also I am greatly saddened to hear that you do like me or my outlook on things. Deeply sorry Grey elder.

Silly GW adding words they don't need. If the rule said 'and any squad joined' there is no loophole. By saying 'any squad he has joined' they open the shenanigan door. Unless of course if people then decided it meant any squad joined to anything gets the rule. I guess they will never be able to write the rules clearly enough for some people.

Edit: just in case that is construed as a veiled insult, by 'some people' I mean Grey eldar