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Can a monolith that deepstrikes use its particle whip on the turn it arrives if there are no warriors available in reserve?

RAW yes

yep. as by Matrix rules he can always shoot it.

It may fire "even if it moves", or similar wording. A DS vehicle counts as moving at Cruising speed, so unless it is fastmay not fire any weapons.

My take is that the specific cannot fire overrides the Monoliths general "may fire", which was from 3rd ed whe you couldnt fire ordnance on the move.

The matrix rules only state that the power matrix can be used, it doesn't say that monolith can fire its particle whip no matter what, or am I missing something here?

The Answer is Yes, No, Maybe.

The problem is, the rules were written at a time when you could not move and fire Ordnance, thus the need for this rule.

I for one agree with Nos.

Rewision wrote:The matrix rules only state that the power matrix can be used, it doesn't say that monolith can fire its particle whip no matter what, or am I missing something here?

The particle whip is using the power matrix. Either teleport a squad or shoot the pie plate.

I see the monolith rule stating it may fire if it moved as more specific than the BRB rule which simply covers all vehicles. I can see the argument the other way as well though. It's just another rule that needs to be added to the phone book of things to clarify with your opponent before the start of a game.

i think Necron dex are pretty clear on this?
matrix cannot be disabled by weap. destroyed, it can be used even if thing moves, shaken or stunned.
Monolith may use its matrix in one of the following ways each necron turn.

and inat faq just clarified this.

Maelstrom808 wrote:I see the monolith rule stating it may fire if it moved as more specific than the BRB rule which simply covers all vehicles. I can see the argument the other way as well though. It's just another rule that needs to be added to the phone book of things to clarify with your opponent before the start of a game.

The problem is the rule does not say "Can fire even if it moved AT CRUISING SPEED", it just says "Can fire if it moved".

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

Gwar! wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:I see the monolith rule stating it may fire if it moved as more specific than the BRB rule which simply covers all vehicles. I can see the argument the other way as well though. It's just another rule that needs to be added to the phone book of things to clarify with your opponent before the start of a game.

The problem is the rule does not say "Can fire even if it moved AT CRUISING SPEED", it just says "Can fire if it moved".

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

Reading it over a few times, I agree...one more reason to beg and plead for an updated codex since it worked fine in 3rd and 4th.

Gwar! wrote:it just says "Can fire if it moved".

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

That isn't relevant. To make your statement, one must be have the current rulebook AND the previous edition's rulebook so that one could discern why a Monolith might have that rule.

But this game can't be forced to use previous edition main rule books.

If someone has the Necron Codex and the current main rulebook, the only conclusion is that the Monolith can fire the Particle Whip if it moves. It doesn't matter what form of movement took place.

Gwar! wrote:

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

You are playing with semantics Gwar. In one sense you are right. BRB does state that vehicles can move and shoot. What you fail to mention is that the BRB explicitly states that if the weapon in question is ordinance then if the vehicle moves, the vehicle cannot fire it, and this is what the Necron codex is more specifically referring to.

s2ua7 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

You are playing with semantics Gwar. In one sense you are right. BRB does state that vehicles can move and shoot. What you fail to mention is that the BRB explicitly states that if the weapon in question is ordinance then if the vehicle moves, the vehicle cannot fire it, and this is what the Necron codex is more specifically referring to.

Ummmmm, no, the rulebook does not say that. The OLD rulebook said that, hence the Monolith rule. The current rulebook allows you to move and fire Ordnance. Either that or a lot of us have been cheating for years............

S2 - the *3rd ed* rulebook said that, neither 4th ed or 5th ed have a restriction no Ordnance.

You may be confusing it with Barrage, which you cannot fire as if you move the vehicle.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gwar! wrote:it just says "Can fire if it moved".

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

That isn't relevant. To make your statement, one must be have the current rulebook AND the previous edition's rulebook so that one could discern why a Monolith might have that rule.

But this game can't be forced to use previous edition main rule books.

If someone has the Necron Codex and the current main rulebook, the only conclusion is that the Monolith can fire the Particle Whip if it moves. It doesn't matter what form of movement took place.

The Necron codex doesn't say the particle whip can fire even if the monolith moves. What it says is that the power matrix can be used even if the monolith moves, is shaken or stunned.
Then it says the matrix can be used one of 2 ways;
1. in the shooting phase the matix energy can be discharged as a particle whip or
2. all the ways it can be used in the movement phase.

The particle whip is listed uder the Necron Weapons and is used in the shooting phase. If that's not shooting, I don't know what is. And if the Monolith deep strikes and is considered to have moved at cruising speed, and vehicles (other than fast) moving at cruising speed can not fire, then a different conclusion is that the monolith cannot fire the particle whip on the turn it arrives from deep strike. It can however use the power matrix to teleport Necrons.

One other thing to consider about the power matrix. If the monolith was shaken or stunned, would you allow it to "fire" the particle whip its next turn?

s2ua7 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

You are playing with semantics Gwar. In one sense you are right. BRB does state that vehicles can move and shoot. What you fail to mention is that the BRB explicitly states that if the weapon in question is ordinance then if the vehicle moves, the vehicle cannot fire it, and this is what the Necron codex is more specifically referring to.

All Ordnance can move and shoot now, thus making the Monoliths rule redundant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gwar! wrote:it just says "Can fire if it moved".

RaW, all it does is give a rule that everyone gets via the BRB now.

That isn't relevant. To make your statement, one must be have the current rulebook AND the previous edition's rulebook so that one could discern why a Monolith might have that rule.

But this game can't be forced to use previous edition main rule books.

If someone has the Necron Codex and the current main rulebook, the only conclusion is that the Monolith can fire the Particle Whip if it moves. It doesn't matter what form of movement took place.

Actually, if you have the Necron Codex and the current rulebook, you can conclude that the monolith can move and shoot its ordnance, but it cannot move CRUISING SPEED and still fire it's ordnance, because it is not fast.

Gwar! your right, I was misreading something in the BRB. I was looking at the moving and shooting section and it states that ordnance and the others are exceptions and I was taking it to mean that you cant move and shoot. Thanks for setting me straight!

Edit: Bah, it was the ordnance barrage that I was thinking of

s2ua7 wrote:Gwar! your right, I was misreading something in the BRB. I was looking at the moving and shooting section and it states that ordnance and the others are exceptions and I was taking it to mean that you cant move and shoot. Thanks for setting me straight!

Glad to oblige!

INAT Faq doesn't agree with you)

penek wrote:INAT Faq doesn't agree with you)

The Inat FAQ is also completely unofficial and has a reputation for arbitrarily changing rules and calling them clarifications.

Codex always supersedes BRB. Two points saying in the dex that "each necron turn the power matrix can be used in one of two ways" and stating that it can be used even if it moved. Even though the BRB says one thing, GW has stated (I believe multiple times) that the codex takes precedence over the BRB. And cruising speed or not, moving is moving.