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here is another list I have prepared

Farseer
both runes
spirit stones
guide
doom
spear


fire dragons x 5
exarch
fire pike
crack shot

fire dragons x 6
exarch
fire pike
crack shot

wave serpent
scatter lasser
spirit stones
star engines

10 clowns
shadow seer
2 fusion pistol
9 kisses

5 jetbikes
1 cannon
1 warlock
destructor
spear

5 jetbikes
1 cannon
1 warlock
destructor
spear

4 jetbikes
1 cannon

2x vyper
shuriken cannon and scatter lasser on each

2x vyper
shuriken cannon and scatter lasser on each


2X war walker
2x eml


falcon
spirit stones
holofields
brightlance

I am fighting against blood angels, it will be my first attempt at them with their new codex, the battle will be in saturday, any comments are welcome

Up, comments needed

I don't get it. You have a bunch of fast units plus Harlequins on foot? Or you have Harlequins hijack a waveserpent and you have fire dragons on foot? Either way, it's bad. Harlequins on foot are OK for counter charge, but since your army is not a gunline, counter charge is not relevant to you.

I'm just not sure what you're trying to do. You've created a fragile list with only so-so firepower. It's not an alpha strike because you've wussed out on the vypers and warwalkers and only have a few of each. And it's not a points denial list because you've got very little AV12. You have loaded up on stuff that can't wipe out enemy units, and also on things that will get wiped out quickly. This is a min/max list, but in this case min/max means minimizing your advantages and maximizing your disadvantages. I'd say start over.

@Ixe

Harlequins can fulfill many roles here, they can be a magnet (many peaople are afraid of them since they can pretty much wipe everything) they can be a threat to a monstrous creatures and such, or they can go and hunt for a devastators.

So-so firepower ??? 4 vypers with sl and shuricans, lots of dragons to pop up vehicles and termies ??

Could You please post what would You change or how do You see 1800 eldar competetive list ?

Best regards

What do you want? Do you want a survivable mechanized list, or a fragile alpha strike list? Because right now you have a nothing. I mean, it might not be a big deal. If your opponents also have a nothing (and most of them do almost everywhere) then you might do just fine.

I would like to see both of them , if You don't mind

Blood Angels, if done right, will eat this list.

Harlies are indeed an exception to out of transport with veil of tears, but when going against BA it's not smart there either. BA will DS right next to them without issue and light them up within the tears range or a dread will CC them and harlies need a damn good roll to hurt them.

Fire Dragons in a falcon is counterproductive. You have a short range high threat unit in a long range expensive as hell gun boat. I'll be priority #1 to anti-tank.

The GBJ config you have is subpar. You obviously want to attack with them with the config you have, so pay the extra 32 pts and slap another S Cannon bike in there. Since your going to in firing range, embolden is a must. Ldr 8 will fail and fail hard.

Do some reconfiguring and drop unnecessary upgrades such as the dragon exarchs (25pts for 6inches and ignore cover on one gun?) and star engines (nothing scoring can go in there so not pulling the extra 12" last round trick. Bonus 12" for a dragon pack is unnecessary).

An alpha strike army starts with 3x3 vypers and 3x3 warwalkers. Vypers always take 2x shuriken cannons because they're too expensive otherwise. Walkers can go with shuriken cannons, scatter lasers, or missile launchers. Then you take 2x Avenger squads in waveserpents and Eldrad to ride in one of the serpents and Guide the shooty units. You just pray to cripple the enemy in the first turn or two with your ridiculous number of shots, because this army has no staying power at all.

A mechanized army has as many AV12 chassis as possible. Go with Dire Avengers or Storm Guardians in waveserpents as troops, at least 2x fire dragon squads in waveserpents, possibly a Banshee squad in a waveserpent. You could back this up with vypers and warwalkers, but you need a solid base of 4-5 waveserpents first. My 2000 mech list has 2x storm guardians with warlocks, 1x5 Avengers in Serpent with Eldrad, 2x5 Fire Dragons in serpent, 1x8 Banshees in Serpent, and an 8 man seer council on jetbikes. So far it's worked really well, since it's incredibly hard to kill and has a lot of close range punch.

You can also do a list with jetbikes for troops, but you'll need to back them up with a bunch of durable vehicles. Jetbikes + vypers + warwalkers = a very fragile list. You can improve the durability of jetbikes with a Fortuneseer on a bike who rides with them of course, I've tried this and it's pretty good. You're just going to need plenty of waveserpents/falcons to support them, not paper tanks.

@ Ixe

Thanks for the suggestions, however

Your alpha strike army is ... a joke, seriously no anti tank power at all....

Second idea for the army seems to be a little bit better, however we have decided with a friend that there will be no special characters, so I can not take eldrad, also it takes 6 serpents , because I understand that storm guardians ride in the serpent as well, I have done some quick math and just it does not seem that You can field it all, along with 8 man seer council. This list compared to the first is playable however I think I will stick to my list

Thanks again for the effort anyway

Zachar wrote:@ Ixe

Thanks for the suggestions, however

Your alpha strike army is ... a joke, seriously no anti tank power at all....

It's not my army and I wouldn't use it. It's a gimick build, against the right opponents they will simply die without knowing what hit them. And with side shots, anything short of a landraider is threatened.

Second idea for the army seems to be a little bit better, however we have decided with a friend that there will be no special characters, so I can not take eldrad, also it takes 6 serpents , because I understand that storm guardians ride in the serpent as well, I have done some quick math and just it does not seem that You can field it all, along with 8 man seer council. This list compared to the first is playable however I think I will stick to my list

Thanks again for the effort anyway

What's wrong with 6 serpents exactly?

And yes, I can field it all. Maybe not at noob town points level, but I can at 2000. My 2000 list is this:

Eldrad - 210

Farseer - Fortune, Bike - 115

7 Warlocks - Bikes, 1 Embolden 1 Enhance 3 Destructor - 365

5 Fire Dragons - Waveserpent, Cannons, Stones - 190

5 Fire Dragons - Waveserpent, Cannons, Stones - 190

7 Banshees + 1 Exarch, Executioner - Waveserpent, Cannones, Stones - 260

10 Storm Guardians - 2 Fusion Guns +1 Warlock w/Spear, Destructor - Waveserpent, Cannons, Stones - 240

10 Storm Guardians - 2 Fusion Guns +1 Warlock w/Spear, Destructor - Waveserpent, Cannons, Stones - 240

5 Dire Avengers - Waveserpent, Cannons, Stones, Vectored Engines - 190

Points:

210
115
365
190
190
260
240
240
190
-----
2000

So I guess someone need to check their math?

I'm sorry, but your list is a roflcopter. If it takes you being roflstomped a bunch of times to figure that out, then that's what it takes. Of course, maybe you won't be, because maybe your opponents are going to be just as bad. In a setting where there's a "no special characters" house rule, it sound like that's probably the case. It sounds like your friends want to play noob town 40k and not real 40k. In which case, have fun, and take your favorite models and cram them into the coolest looking list you can, because who cares?

Uh, no offense Ixe, but that list IS pretty terrible. You have absolutely no long range firepower...

I can only imagine 4 12" must get out of the serpent AT units getting you so far and you don't even have a single spear on the Seer council...

BlueDagger wrote:Uh, no offense Ixe, but that list IS pretty terrible. You have absolutely no long range firepower...

I can only imagine 4 12" must get out of the serpent AT units getting you so far and you don't even have a single spear on the Seer council...

'

Eldar long range firepower is overpriced and crappy. In my experience, Eldar win up close. My list is an absolute beast against everyone I've played so far. First turn, it moves flat out. Everything depends on that turn -- if rolls are average, I take very little damage, and then proceed to crush the enemy with vicious glee. If my cover saves suck and the enemy's anti-tank dice are hot, then I'm in trouble, but the same goes for any mech list, long range firepower or not. I have tried the ranged version of mech Eldar and it is terrible. The firepower is too weak, too expensive, and too inaccurate. That kind of list fights a war of attritition, which it always loses. Unless Eldar are crippling the enemy early in the game, they will simply start to fall apart. So no offense, but you're absolutely wrong.

Ixe wrote: In my experience, Eldar win up close.

Lmao that is such a cracked out quote. Not sure what kinda meta your in, but most of the lists I play would crush something like that lol

Meh, Ixe's is better than the OP's.

I would do something like this:

Council
Yriel
Farseer w/fortune and rune
9-10 warlocks
embolden & enhance x2
serpent

5 dragons
serpent

5 dragons
serpent

5 DA
serpent w/ BL

5 DA
serpent w/ BL

3 walkers
scatter lasers

3 walkers
scatter lasers

Sorry, for the hastiness, might tidy it up later.

@inquisitor

1. what is yriel doing in your list, he goes with what ?? warlocks ??

2. seer council in the serpent ?? i have played once against that kind of build, as soon as the serpent was shot down, the council did nothing as it could not reach me

3. I assume You are doing 2000 list not 1800 and on those kind of points only two scores ?? ... no comment

4. this is the worst list in this topic

Zachar wrote:@inquisitor

1. what is yriel doing in your list, he goes with what ?? warlocks ??

2. seer council in the serpent ?? i have played once against that kind of build, as soon as the serpent was shot down, the council did nothing as it could not reach me

3. I assume You are doing 2000 list not 1800 and on those kind of points only two scores ?? ... no comment

4. this is the worst list in this topic

1)Yes, he removes some of their weaknesses

2)Ok, that is why I fortune it, and move flat out. 4+ re-rollable protects me from most things.

3) 1800, two scoring units that can take 4 objectives

4)

Good one!

BlueDagger wrote:

Ixe wrote: In my experience, Eldar win up close.

Lmao that is such a cracked out quote. Not sure what kinda meta your in, but most of the lists I play would crush something like that lol

I'm not in any particularly skewed meta, and the one who taught me to play Eldar this way is a GT regular. It's important to recognize that the vast majority of people do not know how to make lists, that just because something is accepted as common wisdom does not make it true. Pure mech firepower armies can be OK, but I have had a lot more success with the above list than any other Eldar build. The most important think is the bike council, the list synergizes around that. It is not obvious how it works just from looking at the list, but if you can't understand it, that's not really my problem. I'm a little less inclined to explain it, in fact, since you've shown yourself to be a very rude person.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Zachar wrote:@inquisitor

1. what is yriel doing in your list, he goes with what ?? warlocks ??

2. seer council in the serpent ?? i have played once against that kind of build, as soon as the serpent was shot down, the council did nothing as it could not reach me

3. I assume You are doing 2000 list not 1800 and on those kind of points only two scores ?? ... no comment

4. this is the worst list in this topic

1)Yes, he removes some of their weaknesses

2)Ok, that is why I fortune it, and move flat out. 4+ re-rollable protects me from most things.

3) 1800, two scoring units that can take 4 objectives

4)

Good one!

SAY WHAT ???? two scoring units can take up FOUR objectives ???

Yes:

Wave Serpent: Approx. 7.5"

Put two objectives 12" apart exactly.

7.5" + 3" + 3" = 13.5"

Look, I win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hehehe, your list just makes me giggle everytime I look at it!

Try the following...

Falcon - stones, holo-fields, EML, SC 190
5 firedragons 80
Farseer, goodies, guide, fortune 140
Falcon - stones, holo-fields, EML, SC 190
5 Dire avenger 60
Farseer, goodies, guide, fortune 140
Falcon - stones, holo-fields, EML, SC 190
5 Fire dragons 80

5 Dire avengers 60
5 Dire avengers 60
5 Dire avengers 60
serpent - EML, SC, stones 130
serpent - EML, SC, stones 130
serpent - EML, SC, stones 130
3 jetbikes 66
3 jetbikes 66

1772 with 28 points spare to bulk up a unit, or buy more tank/farseer goodies

Advance 6" forwards (or backwards, it is BA afterall) firing all your main weapons, guide 2 of the falcons, use fortune if you have to boost anywhere to grab objectives or get the dragons further forwards. The falcons can take alot of punishment with holofields.
If you guide two falcons this list can crack out...

12 S6 shots
6 S6 shots (guide/TL)
3 S8 shots
9 S8 shots (guide/TL)

and no-one has gotten out from a tank yet, if you need to then thats an extra...

42 S4 shots
10 S8 shots

As for the bikes, reserve them and grab objectives, in kill-points... hide, or try to take out that one lone tac marine that you didn't kill last turn and don't want to waste a tank on.

If things get desperate start ramming/tank-shocking repeatedly

Ixe wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Ixe wrote: In my experience, Eldar win up close.

Lmao that is such a cracked out quote. Not sure what kinda meta your in, but most of the lists I play would crush something like that lol

I'm not in any particularly skewed meta, and the one who taught me to play Eldar this way is a GT regular. It's important to recognize that the vast majority of people do not know how to make lists, that just because something is accepted as common wisdom does not make it true. Pure mech firepower armies can be OK, but I have had a lot more success with the above list than any other Eldar build. The most important think is the bike council, the list synergizes around that. It is not obvious how it works just from looking at the list, but if you can't understand it, that's not really my problem. I'm a little less inclined to explain it, in fact, since you've shown yourself to be a very rude person.

Lol The guy referring to anything under 2k as "noob town" and continually bashing the OP is calling me rude? . I'll halt this back and forth with a laugh at thinking I don't know seer councils. They are one of the most commonly taken and renowned units for Eldar deathstar. That being said, any competitive Space Marine player will be ready for them. A single psy hood or equivalent can turn your deathstar into a 500pt assault marine unit with a cover save. They have no power weapons, so they can be tarpitted. Without spears they do not have the ability to pop tanks at range and back out. You have no long range AT so destructor spamming becomes more difficult. You have 1 enhance and 1 embolden so swarm fire could down your vital components. You have no runes of witnessing so getting near nids for destructor spam or playing eldarmakes you suddenly very vulnerable. For 500pts I would rather not keep all my eggs in one basket.

But on that note go ahead and keep fielding your list and giving it's advice. Makes it easier for me to keep winning tourneys

Now back to the OP, there is a pile of configurations you can run that folks will consider the "best".
- Banking on 2 scoring units to get what you need to do done is a bad idea. If someone downs even one of those serpents (which dear god I hope someone would be smart enough to in a objectives match) your viability jsut took a huge hit.
- Falcons with fire dragons is a bad idea, Holo-fields just make damage a shaken at minimum, so getting them in range to be shot up means less shots from your 2 heavy weapons. 5 DA is good for falcons because they can now sit on your object and pop long range shots. At their cost though of 190 pts them as a heavy is less then ideal.
- 3 reg bikes alone become a liability in a Annihilation style match and in a regular objective based match if you take even a single krak missile hit you have a good chance of losing the unit.

BlueDagger wrote:

Ixe wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

Ixe wrote: In my experience, Eldar win up close.

Lmao that is such a cracked out quote. Not sure what kinda meta your in, but most of the lists I play would crush something like that lol

I'm not in any particularly skewed meta, and the one who taught me to play Eldar this way is a GT regular. It's important to recognize that the vast majority of people do not know how to make lists, that just because something is accepted as common wisdom does not make it true. Pure mech firepower armies can be OK, but I have had a lot more success with the above list than any other Eldar build. The most important think is the bike council, the list synergizes around that. It is not obvious how it works just from looking at the list, but if you can't understand it, that's not really my problem. I'm a little less inclined to explain it, in fact, since you've shown yourself to be a very rude person.

Lol The guy referring to anything under 2k as "noob town" and continually bashing the OP is calling me rude? . I'll halt this back and forth with a laugh at thinking I don't know seer councils. They are one of the most commonly taken and renowned units for Eldar deathstar. That being said, any competitive Space Marine player will be ready for them. A single psy hood or equivalent can turn your deathstar into a 500pt assault marine unit with a cover save. They have no power weapons, so they can be tarpitted. Without spears they do not have the ability to pop tanks at range and back out. You have no long range AT so destructor spamming becomes more difficult. You have 1 enhance and 1 embolden so swarm fire could down your vital components. You have no runes of witnessing so getting near nids for destructor spam or playing eldarmakes you suddenly very vulnerable. For 500pts I would rather not keep all my eggs in one basket.

This sentence alone shows that you don't have a clue. I'll leave you to scratch your head over that, because I'm done with you. I might be rude in a general sense, i.e. insulting a certain points level, but I didn't lol in anyone's virtual face. If you think that's how a grown-up should behave in public then you go right on behaving that way, I'll just pretend you're not there.

Banking on 2 scoring units to get what you need to do done is a bad idea. If someone downs even one of those serpents (which dear god I hope someone would be smart enough to in a objectives match) your viability just took a huge hit.

I hope that wasn't at me.

IF they manage to down a serpent before my offensive units get to them, then that is one less objectives I can take, there is usually enough terrain to BLoS to my 5 man avenger team in 1,800 points tournaments.

So 1 less objectives, no *too* bad, also, I would take to of those units over the 5 or so you can take with the jetbikes any day. The walkers usually take out the largest threats to my troops easily, seeing as they can outflank, or just sit there first turn, with a cover save.

So yes, I will admit, my 2,000 point list, where I esentially add in a avenger serpent without any other modifications, is a bit better, though I have been in tournaments with this list, and have placed first. Please, none of that "lolwellyoumustnothavehadgoodopponents" because that is not the case.