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Okay, I play Blood Angels and was planning on adding a vindicator, however I have a question about it. It says that it's demolisher cannon is ordinance 1 which would make me think that it's a single shot that only hits one target, however some people have been talking about it like it's a large blast weapon. Can someone clear this up for me please?

When it says "ordinance" that means use the small blast template. Then apply normal rules to see who is hit and wounded.

Its a large blast.

Actually Ordnance defaults to the large blast, unless you're playing a total RAW Douchebag. See posts below for details!

except that Ordnance weapons use the Large blast template.

Single shot, resolved like any other blast weapon.

[edit]: wth Slave!?! I'm agreeing with you

well, maybe not directly below....

Leo_the_Rat wrote:When it says "ordinance" that means use the small blast template. Then apply normal rules to see who is hit and wounded.

Um, no. Ordnance has a few specific rules, which are clearly laid out on pages 58 and 60. One of these rules is that all weapons defined as "Ordnance Blast" weapons (aside from those whose special rules specify otherwise) use the Large Blast template.

As the Blood Angels' Vindicator does not, technically, have an Ordnance Blast weapon, it should use a single shot. This is technically the RAW.

However, all other instances of Demolisher cannons are either printed as Ordnance Blast or have been errata'd to Ordnance Blast, so most people play that it's a typo in the Blood Angels codex and it should be Large Blast.

edit: Happy now, Slave?

Oh jeese the level of wrongness in this thread! D:

"Ordnance 1" means exactly that. It is not a Blast Weapon. Now, RaW, the BA Vindicator is NOT a Blast weapon. However, this is the same mistake they made in the SM codex before it was Errata'd, so expect it to be errata'd for the BA too.

And before you cry, No, not all Ordnance is Ordnance Blast. The only actual non Ordnance Blast Ordnance weapon however is in the IG codex of all places, the Hellstrike Missiles the Valkyries have, which is both RaW not a blast AND confirmed via the FAQ to not be blast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Actually Ordnance defaults to the large blast, unless you're playing a total RAW Douchebag. See posts below for details!

Incorrect. It does nothing of the sort. What it says is that Ordnance BLAST defaults to the 5" marker, nothing else.

radical bob wrote:except that Ordnance weapons use the Large blast template.

Again, Incorrect. Ordnance BLAST weapons use the Large Blast MARKER.

Notice a pattern here people?

The only pattern I notice is Gwar! being right. But that's been a trend for a while.

Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

3rdCompanyCaptainEldurin wrote:Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

Well, to be fair, it is supposed to be Large Blast (yes, even I admit that Large Blast is the intent) since they errataed the SM one which had the EXACT same mistake, but until then, you can RaW use it as non Blast.

Gwar! wrote:

3rdCompanyCaptainEldurin wrote:Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

Well, to be fair, it is supposed to be Large Blast (yes, even I admit that Large Blast is the intent) since they errataed the SM one which had the EXACT same mistake, but until then, you can RaW use it as non Blast.

And then it becomes the worst weapon in the ENTIRE game.

Happygrunt wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

3rdCompanyCaptainEldurin wrote:Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

Well, to be fair, it is supposed to be Large Blast (yes, even I admit that Large Blast is the intent) since they errataed the SM one which had the EXACT same mistake, but until then, you can RaW use it as non Blast.

And then it becomes the worst weapon in the ENTIRE game.

What? It becomes one of the best Tank Hunters SM have! Rather than that annoying scatter that will completely dick you over when you need it, you instead have a Railgun that rolls 2D6 pick the highest instead of AP1 (and of course 1/3 the range but that's not an issue in 99% of cases).

Gwar! wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

3rdCompanyCaptainEldurin wrote:Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

Well, to be fair, it is supposed to be Large Blast (yes, even I admit that Large Blast is the intent) since they errataed the SM one which had the EXACT same mistake, but until then, you can RaW use it as non Blast.

And then it becomes the worst weapon in the ENTIRE game.

What? It becomes one of the best Tank Hunters SM have! Rather than that annoying scatter that will completely dick you over when you need it, you instead have a Railgun that rolls 2D6 pick the highest instead of AP1 (and of course 1/3 the range but that's not an issue in 99% of cases).

But at the cost of a Grimdark explosion? I dont think so...

Gwar! wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

3rdCompanyCaptainEldurin wrote:Okay. Thanks everyone for clearing that up. That was a real point of confusion amongst my friends and me since all other demolisher cannons are large blast, and everyone referred to the blood angels one as such as well.

Well, to be fair, it is supposed to be Large Blast (yes, even I admit that Large Blast is the intent) since they errataed the SM one which had the EXACT same mistake, but until then, you can RaW use it as non Blast.

And then it becomes the worst weapon in the ENTIRE game.

What? It becomes one of the best Tank Hunters SM have! Rather than that annoying scatter that will completely dick you over when you need it, you instead have a Railgun that rolls 2D6 pick the highest instead of AP1 (and of course 1/3 the range but that's not an issue in 99% of cases).

So the Demolisher goes from being a short-ranged and deadlier battle cannon to being a shorter-ranged and deadlier vanquisher cannon? NICE!

No vanquisher cannons are roll 2d6 and add them together

I know, just making an analogy (a bad one at that).

Maybe it's intentional. The BA being assault oriented and not wanting to hit their own troops they have modified the cannon with non explosive AP rounds

Yep, until they FAQ it (errata it, hopefully), it's a non-blast weapon. And the SM codex isn't a good example, since in that one they had two different profiles, both wrong. In the BA, there's only one profile, exactly the same in two different places. And as far as all previous demolisher cannons being blast, sure, and until it changed, all previous assault cannons (some still being played) were Assault 3 non-rending. New codexes do change equipment. Until they say one way or the other, we don't know if this chnage is intentional or not.

It will be errata'd, it was just a copy paste from the codex space amrines file that was never updated ...

Also, fluff doesnt matter at all, but id imagine the mechanicus would use the tech heresy of them modifying the holy demolisher cannon, plus the never gave us the baal pred and finally start a massive war and wipe out the last of the blood angels ... so yea they didnt mess with it, its a misprinted entry.

kill dem stunties wrote:, it was just a copy paste from the codex space amrines file that was never updated ...

If true, then one of them would say Barrage, since that's what one of the SM entries says. So they knowingly changed at least one of the entries......................

So you really think they meant to make it a direct shot weapon? I know RAW, and yes 99.9999% i like to side with it, except in super unreasonable cases, like not giving doom of malantai access to its invul save or things like this.

Its pretty obvious this isnt an intended change, as it would no longer be armed with a "Demolisher cannon", nor would it be a "Vindicator", it would be the "Blood angels super bloody crimson deathwagon of blood" ... with a "bloodbash cannon" or something ... lol.

Blood Spike shells for their V8 Vindicators?

This is how I imagine the Errata will look:

"The Vindicator now has the Blood special rule"
"Blood: This weapon is extremely bloody, as thus is treated like an Ordnance Blast is all respects"

Blood for the Blood Blood!

kill dem stunties wrote:So you really think they meant to make it a direct shot weapon? I know RAW, and yes 99.9999% i like to side with it, except in super unreasonable cases, like not giving doom of malantai access to its invul save or things like this.

Its pretty obvious this isnt an intended change, as it would no longer be armed with a "Demolisher cannon", nor would it be a "Vindicator", it would be the "Blood angels super bloody crimson deathwagon of blood" ... with a "bloodbash cannon" or something ... lol.

I don't know one way or the other. All I can go by is what they actually wrote. It's not a direct copy of the SM codex, so that means they changed it intentionally. Now maybe they did a cut and paste from just one line, hence the no barrage entry. I don't know. I wasn't there, wasn't involved in the writing or editing, etc etc.

And if it was "obvious", it would have the word 'blast' n the weapon profile. Without that, it's not obvious at all. Did they change the name of the aassault cannon when they changed it's stats? Nope, didn't even give it a mkII designation. My point is, we don't know. I don't know, you don't know, Joe Snuffy that just started playing really doesn't know. So all we can go with until we get an FAQ/Eratta is Ordnance 1.

I just love how they never errata'd the orbital bombardment to have blast or large blast, yet the rules on firing tell you to roll a scatter die and how it scatters.

Kommissar Kel wrote:I just love how they never errata'd the orbital bombardment to have blast or large blast, yet the rules on firing tell you to roll a scatter die and how it scatters.

... Because they didn't need to?

The Bombardment is "Ordnance 1, Barrage". Read the rulebook, and you will find all Barrage weapons are Blast Weapons, and all Ordnance Barrage Weapons are therefore Barrage Weapons that use the Large Blast Marker, as all Ordnance Blast weapons use the Large Blast marker unless otherwise specified.