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Can anybody possibly explain to me why the transport capacity of a Land Raider Redeemer is 6 less models than a Land Raider Crusader and even 2 less than a normal one? The Crusader is probably better in most instances without the transport difference, and it really annoys the crap out of me that it's got the transport capacity of a friggin Rhino.

Totally just ruined my Salamanders army T.T

The Land Raider Crusader was created with excess space specifically to deliver more assault troops to the target. No surprise that it was a Black Templar creation there.

The Land Raider, mind you, was designed to deliver Terminator Squads unharmed to a target and then provide fire support while they're working.

The Redeemer?
The Redeemer is a whole new beast. The promethium tanks that allow the sponsons to be fired continuously are what takes up that 4 spaces, dropping the carrying capacity from 16 to 12(16-12=4. Not 6).

Kanluwen wrote:The Land Raider Crusader was created with excess space specifically to deliver more assault troops to the target. No surprise that it was a Black Templar creation there.

The Land Raider, mind you, was designed to deliver Terminator Squads unharmed to a target and then provide fire support while they're working.

The Redeemer?
The Redeemer is a whole new beast. The promethium tanks that allow the sponsons to be fired continuously are what takes up that 4 spaces, dropping the carrying capacity from 16 to 12(16-12=4. Not 6).

Wow, my armybuilder says that it is 10. That's actually much better.

Beside combine it with khan outflanking and you get a beast. also if you get add khan to the termies with lc you got whole new ball game.

The redeemer is great if your opponent lines up two separate units within 6" of it.. Then again if he does that he's not all too bright

Pretty much always rather take a crusader

Kirasu wrote:The redeemer is great if your opponent lines up two separate units within 6" of it..

You only need to have two units up to 20" apart, that's hard to avoid I prefer the redeemer to the crusader. The crusaders 1,5 wounds per turn don't make enough of an impact on the game. The big flamers allow me to wreak havoc on one part of the board which gives me more tactical options.

Shrubs wrote:

Kirasu wrote:The redeemer is great if your opponent lines up two separate units within 6" of it..

You only need to have two units up to 20" apart, that's hard to avoid I prefer the redeemer to the crusader. The crusaders 1,5 wounds per turn don't make enough of an impact on the game. The big flamers allow me to wreak havoc on one part of the board which gives me more tactical options.

1.5 wounds. Mind telling me how you came up with that number?

As much as I would Love 2 Flamestorm cannons(or ANY flamestorm cannons) I do not see myself ever using the redeemer.

I mean yes with PotMS you can move 6" and fire both templates but then you have the wasted T-L Assault cannon. And yes you have the transport capacity to take a full tac squad(or 10 blood claws, or full assault squad sans jump packs)along with 2 ICs, but a regular vanilla-SM LR can do this too.

The Crusader can carry more troops and fire every gun when it moves 6" for just 10 more points(and you can add still-fire-able storm bolter and Multimelta).

Sure, you don't fire the TL Assault Cannon when you're in range to fire off both Flamestorm Cannons, but that's the catch. The TL Assault Cannon's only wasted if you start the game in Flamestorm range, and that doesn't happen very often. The TL Assault Cannon is what you fire while moving up the board until you can roast infantry with the Flamestorms, seeing as it has range and all. You can also combine the assault cannon with the pintle multi-melta for some decent anti-tank, as well.

tedurur wrote:1.5 wounds. Mind telling me how you came up with that number?

6 shots, 5 hits, 2.5 wounds. After the 4+ cover you get 1.25 which I rounded up to 1.5 for my rounding down the twin-linked to-hit.

@Kommissar Kel: if I need the 16 man space I'll take the crusader of course. But if I only need 12, I prefer the Redeemer.

I dunno, Crusaders are the rave around where I play and I find them pretty awesome. That being said, I play orks, so those Hurricane Bolters and Assault Cannons are worth the price of admission against me...

I use the redeemer, and it always does well, because people for some reason think that it is not a threat until it dumps a load of terminators, and/or torches a squad from 12" away. That and when it does get shot at it usually only gets stunned (which is reduced by extra armor).

As far as the LRC's transport capacity, in most games I have seen/played it has been a marginal difference. I also don't like the fact it is more expensive. That being said, unless you run a deathstar unit IMO the redeemer is a better choice.

Name me another land raider that can kill it with fire. Go ahead, I'll wait.

*tap*tap*tap*tap*tappin' on mah watch*

there's no Redeemer like the Grey Knight Redeemer.
god I hope that thing makes it into a new DH Codex, at slightly reduced price of course. Or stock w/MM would be equally nice...

I wonder what books people are reading.

Crusader - carries 16 guys, TL assault cannon, Hurricane bolters.

Redeemer - Carries 12 guys, TL assault cannon, x2 flamestorm cannon. 10 points less than crusader.

Cruader moves 6" can fire hurricane bolters, TL assault cannon and with the PotMS it can also fire one other weapon (multi-melta if purchased for example). Also don't forget that if your within 12" the hurrican bolters can rapid fire giving you 12 shots not just 6.

Redeemer can move 6" and fire only two of the following flamestorm cannon, assault cannon, multi-melta (if purchased).

The crusader puts out more firepower all game long than the redeemer does. I'll give you that flame storm cannons are strong anti infantry, but I've never seen anyone be able to use both in a single shooting phase. However, I've played in many games where the guns of the crusader never silenced.

I think you guys are too hung up on the Flamestorm cannons. I almost never fire both of them in the same turn, but I don't ever expect to. Often it's:
Move 12" PotMS fires Assualt Cannon, possibly disgorge dangerous cargo.
Move 6" towards unengaged enemy targets, kill it with fire, PotMS fires Assault Cannon/Multimelta/Flamestorm at another target.

Sure, the Crusader can fire more guns, but I find that the destructive power of the Redeemer to give it the edge in my games, also, I never need that much cargo space.

I use my Redeemer to get my Terminator Assault Squad with attached character into combat.