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Hi all,

One of my good mates who I play against most regularly has started taking loads of armored targets in just about every game now. He's got loads of Rhino's, Drop Pods, Dread Noughts, Predators, Vindicator etc and hardly any squishy men for me to get.

The problem I am having is I am really struggling to destroy this many armored targets, particularly Rhinos and drop pods which should be a hell of a lot easier for me to destroy for 35 points. I have just about everything in the codex to choose from (except Warwalkers which I suspect most people will suggest I get to solve this) and stick a couple of bright lances in most of my lists, but is their a better way to deal with such a high volume of targets with an armor value (typically 10+ units in a 1500-2000 game.

The only effective way I seem to regularly pop them is in close combat, which isn't ideal really as want to pop the transports in the shooting phase. I also have a load of fire dragons which pretty much guarantee a vehicle destruction, but then I am sacrificing a couple of hundred points (with transport) to kill a rhino as they soon get wiped out

In a typical army list I may take in terms of things that can be used for anti-tank :

1 Fireprism
Waveserpents with scatter lasers
Wraithlord with Missile/Bright Lance
Falcon
2 squads of fire dragons in transports

Occassionally Guardian bright lance or missile platform
Dark Reapers exarch with missile launcher/fast shot

I think my luck has been pretty bad when shooting at vehicles recently, but are there any changes I could consider when I am fairly certain every game that he will be using a very simliar Mech list. What I really want is to hammer him a few times so he starts taking less armored targets as I find it a little tiresome.

Thanks guys

Bright Lances are wasted on Rhinos. That's why god invented Scatter Lasers.

War Walkers (yeah) Vypers or Guardian Platforms - any and all can benefit from a Farseer helping out with their BS3.

I'd say also that putting Scatter Lasers on your Falcons and Wave Serpents is also a waste - they get the heavy stuff (since Wave Serpents get TL weapons and Falcons have the Pulse Laser as back up in case the Lance misses).


The only other thing I can suggest is to use your speed to your advantage. There's an upper limit to the usefulness of a Space Marine if he never has the chance to get out of his rhino - since you're tearing around the table like a blue-arsed fly.

Oh, and never link your Fire Prisms, it's just not worth it.

Yeah Scatter Lasers are the way to go for anti-transport duties, save the Bright Lances and Fire Dragons for the bigger stuff. Eldar can put out a scary amount of S6 shooting which is all you need to deal with all the main transports in the game, even Shuriken Cannons can do the job if you are short points.

Scatters on Falcons and Serpents is certainly not a waste though, on a Serpent they are cheap and reliable against just about anything (but they are still the best place for a Bright Lance so upgrade them first) and they are one of the best choices for a Falcon as well, Scatter + Pulse Laser and underslung Shuriken Cannon is a pretty solid gunboat. Alternatively I would go with EML for the added range and S8, the Bright Lance isn't a good choice as while it is also S8 like the Pulse Laser, the Pulse Laser doesn't have the Lance rule which limits its effectiveness.

War Walkers followed by Vypers are obviously the best places to put Scatter Lasers though. I would probably put them in Guardian Squads over Bright Lances as well unless you don't have enough Fire Dragons to deal with AV14.

Other than that try and stay mobile and keep your distance. Avoid completely static units like Reapers and Rangers/Pathfinders (which won't do much good against vehicles in any case), try and slow him down as much as possible and then back away as he tries to walk to you.

Thanks guys - good advice. I know scatter lasers should be good to pop rhino's but as I said maybe my dice have just been crap the last couple of months.

Will definately get at least 1 squad of walkers. I have a couple of Vypers but find they are just so expensive points wise for what they do. I look at the points and options on a land speeder and there is just no comparison

mikeyboyj wrote: I look at the points and options on a land speeder and there is just no comparison

Yeah, I know what you mean, that's why I usually take a couple of Land Speeders in my Eldar army to... Oh, wait.


Sorry - I don't mean to mock. Yeah, no doubt the Eldar 'dex is starting to show its age, and several units are over-priced, or a bit anemic, but there have been a couple of discussions about Vypers lately, and I and a couple of others point out that they are still a valid part of an Eldar force.

Especially, I'd say, in your case. Scatter Lasers have a nice long range, I grant, but not so long that the enemy can't simply avoid your War Walkers.

War Walkers, being outflankers, will typically come on from one side of the board - which basically ensures that the other side is completely safe, 'cos once they appear, they are going nowhere. War Walkers are pretty much stationary once on the board.

Vypers, while over-costed, are massively mobile The enemy can't run or hide from them and you have every opertunity to hit side or rear armour.

I'm not saying War Walkers aren't good, they are - but they don't do the same job as Vypers.

War Walkers sacrifice speed for power, Vypers sacrifice power for speed.

Azazel... Dude...

Why are you telling this guy that outflanking War Walkers aren't as good as Vypers? Nothing could be farther from the truth, as I think most people would agree.

Outflanking with War Walkers means that Side Armor is exposed to something, and if you have an Autarch you will see the majority of your reserves on turn 2. You have a 66% chance of getting them on the side that you want, and then they can move and shoot with a 42 inch threat range(for SL, may change for other weapons obviously.)

There is no reason to take Vypers over War Walkers. If you prefer Vypers that's fine, but don't say that they're better because they just aren't.

Hell no - I didn't say that, and I didn't mean to imply it either!

The gist of what I was trying to say (and I admit, I didn't say it clearly) is that since he already has Vypers, but doesn't use them, he might want to re-evaluate their usefulness. I never told him not to buy those War Walkers - I think it's a good idea.

All I actually said was that Vypers are still a valid part of an Eldar Army, and that Vypers and War Walkers have different jobs in that army.

EDIT - in fact, in my first post, War Walkers were the first thing I suggested.

Ah. Very well then!

It very well could have been a reading fail on my part.

Eh, that's the net for you. No harm done.

ok riddle me this.

If you have all your HS slots filled, war walkers included, would a squadron of 1-2 vipers or a couple of them, be a nice addition, especially in a MEQ list?

I am thinking about Grav-ing up all my guardians and tear assing around Nam. However, I have so many things that have S6, a couple S8 on vipers could come in handy. OR should I move the S8 to wave serpents and keep the vipers on S6 light infantry/transport duty?

Eldar don't exactly have a wealth of great options for Fast Attack (which when you think about it, is exactly the opposite of what one'd expect - if anyone epitomises Fast Attack it's Eldar...)

Personally, I'd not put EMLs or Bright Lances on the Vypers* - at BS3 they will miss too often to be worth those single-shot weapons. Scatter Lasers ameliorate that with large numbers of shots.

For my money, Vypers are best dodging around the shop spitting out lots of mid-strength shots at light armour.

Wave Serpents seem like a better place for single-shot weapons due to the twin-linking. Though conventional wisdom is to let your Guardians camp out at the home objective and put some kind of Aspect Warrior in the Serpents.


* when I say that 'I' wouldn't put those weapons on a Vyper - I actually would, but I have a Farseer with a Jetbike who can keep up with the Vypers and make them shoot straight if I have to. Vypers loose all point if they are not kept moving, and if your Farseer can't keep up with them then it's not worth giving them single-shot guns.

What is the best way for Eldar to deal with Landraiders? Scatter Lasers don't seem like the right choice.

Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons. Maybe some more Fire Dragons.

If I were ever to play Eldar, the first thing I'd slap in would be:

9 Fire Dragons + Exarch in Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuriken annons x3 = 816 points.

Destroys any vehicle in the game guaranteed, crushes MEQ, TEQ, will instakill most characters.

I second the fire Dragons - though as I say above, Wave Serpents seem to be the natural home of Bright Lances and EMLs.

Fire Prisms come in a distant second to Fire Dragons - AV14 might be the one time I'd consider linking Prisms...

The only problem with the fire dragons approach is they are great for land raiders, but pointless when I am trying to pop rhino's or get rid of annoying drop pods. As soon as the dragons have got out and destroyed the vehicle they are almost always wiped out as they are such a threat.

I ussually have been putting shuriken cannon on my serpents to keep them cheap but think I will have to go back to one with ML 1 with BL to at least give me a better chance. Then maybe a squad of walkers with all scatter lasers and a wraithlord with scatter + missile launcher