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A couple of months ago I fought a Tomb Kings player who hit my STank with a spell (sorry I can't remember the name) that has a strength and as a side effect keeps the effected model from moving. We discussed that STanks are only effected by damage causing spells and I thought the side effect wouldn't work but he said that it did. I let him have it despite him not doing any damage. I'm about to play him again and I want to know whether he is right or I am.

Thanks for your responses

Hm...well, I'm not sure on the specifics here, but from what I understand, if the Steam Tank is "immune to all spells that do not deal damage with a given Strength value", then the spell you mentioned does not fall under that category, as it has a given Strength value. I believe you're either immune to the whole spell or you get hit by the whole spell, given the Steam Tank's wording, IIRC.

Anyone else?

Warpsolution is correct. If a spell has a strength value, it will affect the Stank with all it's effects.

You were hit by Khalida's staff.

It's 2d6 str 4 hits with an added effect that if it successfully goes off. the unit can't move either.

The Steam Tank ignores secondary effects.

"Only spells with a given Strength can damage the tank - all other spell effects are ignored."

Nope. No where does it say that it ignores other affects of spells that have a strength value.

I quoted the book.

Right. According to the book, the only thing that matters is if the spell has a strength value. If it does, then it affects the stank. No strength value, then no effect.

If the spell has a strength value AND other effects, then all of it affects the stank.

Well, hold on there Skyth. Manfred quoted the book, which states that only spells with "a given strength" can effect the Steam Tank...but then it says "all other spell EFFECTS" are ignored.

That, everyone, is a contradictory statement. The first clause says that spells with a given Strength effect the Tank. The second seems to suggest that any non-damaging effects of a spell are ignored, that the Tank can only be damaged by spells, and can be immune to parts and not immune to other parts.

RaI doesn't really help, either. The argument could go both ways from that standpoint, and the RaW makes little sense. I suspect it was a typo.

In this case, RAI is pretty clear.

Warp made my point for me, but I'll clarify: as the rule goes on to say "spell effects", even by RAW it's clear that non-damaging effects are ignored. Otherwise, they would have said, "all other spells are ignored".

Funnily enough, you can still halve its movement with the Rune of Wrath and Ruin, which is probably where this comes in.

To me, it's iffy. The exact wording says "All other spell effects are ignored", but in practically all the examples they pretty much state a spell is ignored (not its effects) because it doesn't have a strength. RAW, I'd agree with Manfred: You ignore all secondary effects. RAI, it's much more iffy because - as you saw - the Wrath & Ruin could halve it even though it's essentially a spell fired in the shooting phase.

But W&R isn't a spell, which is why (thanks to the FAQ) it works on the tank.

Another thing to consider would be that, with Lore of Metal spells, the "No save allowed" wouldn't be included. You would still be given your save, because it's a spell effect and not strength related.

Wait just a minute there, Manfred. As you quoted:

"Only SPELLS (not effects, just spells) with a given Strength can damage the tank - all other spell EFFECTS (not the whole spell, just parts of the spell that do not deal damage) are ignored."

I believe that the RaI would mean one of the following two: Only spells with a given strength value can damage the tank. Spells without a given strength value are ignored.

OR

Only spell effects with a given strength value can damage the tank- all other effects are ignored.

As it stands, it is unclear, confusing, and essentially contradictory.

If you want to break it down further, one can argue that since it uses the word 'damage' and not 'affect', that further clarifies things.

I am in agreement with Manfred on this one, the rule he quoted (while poorly written) indicates damage rather than effect. Thus only wound causing parts of the spell with a given strength will effect the tank all others will be ignored.

Why not just stick the steam tank up the players nose and slap him in the face.

William Matthews wrote:Why not just stick the steam tank up the players nose and slap him in the face.

While that is correct for a plastic steam tank, if it's the old metal model, it gets put in a sock and you beat him with it. 'Stanksocking' is very traditional in many parts of the world.

mikhaila wrote:

William Matthews wrote:Why not just stick the steam tank up the players nose and slap him in the face.

While that is correct for a plastic steam tank, if it's the old metal model, it gets put in a sock and you beat him with it. 'Stanksocking' is very traditional in many parts of the world.

Seriosuly, why the hate? There are FAR worse things in this game than the watered-down Steam Tank.

Its more memory - armoured company was a hrd list for a long time, and quite broken against the majority of armies. not so much anymore, but hatred takes a while to disappear.

If DoC gegt a new book tomorrow that makes them like 7th ed ogres, people would STILL dislike them for a while. OK maybe ogres is a bit far....

The steam tank is incredibly powerful and nearly impossible for many armies to actually do anything about. . . I personally think the only thing keeping me from strangling empire players is the Anvil of Doom, and Doom Wheels, which are the only things I hate more. Hell I don't even mind Blood Thirsters. . .

The Stank is a rock-paper-scissors unit. I don't really like using mine. Either your opponent can deal with it (And once it starts taking wounds, it can't do much) or they can't and it starts running through thier army.

citadel97501 wrote:The steam tank is incredibly powerful and nearly impossible for many armies to actually do anything about. . . I personally think the only thing keeping me from strangling empire players is the Anvil of Doom, and Doom Wheels, which are the only things I hate more. Hell I don't even mind Blood Thirsters. . .

If the Steam Tank were really so all-powerful, I'd run my Empire more often. As-is, it loses effectiveness exponentially as it starts taking damage. While it may be difficult to actually kill it, it's got a chance to hurt itself just about every turn. A dragon with one wound left is still scary; a Tank with one wound left is a piece of terrain.

Albeit a piece of terrain that hasn't given up any VPs. I agree with the assessment from Manfred and Skyth- it's not an overwhelmingly powerful model by any means. But some players *do* find it frustrating because they lack ways of effectively dealing with it. And if you can't deal with it, it'll give you a serious headache.

RZ

I'll agree with that. If only the Steam Tank could give up half points. Then I would consider it much more fair. For those armies that can already deal with it, it wouldn't change anything, and for those that can't, they could gain some benefit for "only" doing five wounds to it.

Steam Tanks are, indeed, monstrously powerful. Anyone who disagrees is being silly. But they are 300 points, so I wouldn't say they're completely broken. But this is all terribly off topic.

Warpsolution wrote:Hm...well, I'm not sure on the specifics here, but from what I understand, if the Steam Tank is "immune to all spells that do not deal damage with a given Strength value", then the spell you mentioned does not fall under that category, as it has a given Strength value. I believe you're either immune to the whole spell or you get hit by the whole spell, given the Steam Tank's wording, IIRC.

Anyone else?

How terribly wrong.

ImRightBehindYou wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:Hm...well, I'm not sure on the specifics here, but from what I understand, if the Steam Tank is "immune to all spells that do not deal damage with a given Strength value", then the spell you mentioned does not fall under that category, as it has a given Strength value. I believe you're either immune to the whole spell or you get hit by the whole spell, given the Steam Tank's wording, IIRC.

Anyone else?

QFT

...except it's not. See: Rest of Thread; as opposed to quoting a post near the top before the truth was revealed.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

ImRightBehindYou wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:Hm...well, I'm not sure on the specifics here, but from what I understand, if the Steam Tank is "immune to all spells that do not deal damage with a given Strength value", then the spell you mentioned does not fall under that category, as it has a given Strength value. I believe you're either immune to the whole spell or you get hit by the whole spell, given the Steam Tank's wording, IIRC.

Anyone else?

QFT

...except it's not. See: Rest of Thread; as opposed to quoting a post near the top before the truth was revealed.

Quit putting words in my mouth to up your post count?

Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case my tired mind last night didn't process it...

Oh, and if you compare my post count with how long I've been here, I think you'd see that I'm clearly not concerned about my post count, thankyouverymuch.