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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/01 17:33:37
Subject: Eldar Codex re-write v1.0
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Okay. I've been doodling ideas down on paper during bus journeys for a while now and its time i got some criticism and ideas from someone other than myself. I've tried to follow recent trends in some ways and have upped/downed some stats and/or points which really need to be revised.
Lets start with the unit choices and the main changes written in italics I will eventually get to detailing all the changes.
HQ
Farseer/Warlocks - slightly cheaper, changes to powers
Avatar - largely unchanged
Autarch - wargear changes, SOME exarch power options
Phoenix lords - wargear changes, stat changes, 2 new lords
Special charecters - some old charecters worked in with new rules
ELITES
Fire Dragons
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Dire Avengers
Dark Reapers
Harlequins
- all the above, squad leaders built into unit 'base cost' powers bought per model rather than per unit, some stat and wargear changes
TROOPS
0-2 Aspect Warriors - aspect armies sligtly more feasable
Wraithguard - 2 wounds each, 6+ invun save, immune to poisen
Guardian defender squad - 1 platform per 10, defensive grenades, cheaper
Guardian storm squad - 1 weapon per 5, assault grenades, cheaper
Guardian jetbike squad - more options other than shuriken cannon
Rangers
FAST ATTACK
Warp Spiders - power changes
Swooping Hawks - cheaper, power changes
Shining Spears - cheaper
Vyper squadren - price changes on weapons
War Walker scout squadren - unchanged
HEAVY SUPPORT
Wraithlords - units of 1-3, different load-out depending on spirit inside (dark reaper, dire avenger, farseer, etc)
Artillery - extra crew options, weapon profile changes
Grav Tank - fire prism, night spinner, etc
Guardian suppression squad - high density of platformswith long barreled shuriken catapults (R24, assault 1)
War Walker combat squadren - BS4, incrased armor, looses scout, increased cost
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Wave Serpent - Reduce cost by 20 points
Falcon Grav Tank - BS 4
Storm Vyper - open topped armour 10 fast skimmer with transport capacity 6 and no turret gun
Automatically Appended Next Post: Vehicle Upgrades
Vectored engines - Re-roll dangerous terrain tests - 10 points
Holo fields - Roll 2D6 for damage and pick the lowest result - 30 points
Spirit stones - Treat stunned results as shaken, treat shaken as nothing on a 5+ - 15 points
Plasma venting - Attackers in CC automatically take a S3 AP- hit - 10 points
Webway drive - +50% to movement speeds - 30 points
Webway drive explained.
cruising speed becomes 0.1" to 9"
combat speed becomes 9.1" to 18"
Flat out speed becomes 18.1" to 36"
Dedicated transports
- Wave serpent (BS3, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 12, fast, skimmer, tank.
70 points + weapons/upgrades.
shield rule remains the same.
- Storm vyper (BS3, 10-10-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, open-topped.
45 points, TL shuriken catapults, upgrade to (numerous) for x points.
- Falcon (BS4, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, tank.
90 points w/ pulse laser + weapons/upgrades
Other vehicles
- Grav tanks (to be decided)
- Vyper (BS3, 10-10-10)
35 points (TL shuriken catapult) + weapons/upgrades
- Scout war walker (BS3, 10-10-10)
? points + weapons/upgrades, scout
- combat war walker (BS4, 12-11-10)
? points + weapons/upgrades
vehicle weapon list and costs (in brackets, normal and TL)
Scatter laser R36 S6 AP6 Heavy4 (10/15)
Shuriken cannon R24 S6 AP4 Heavy3 (8/10)
Brightlance R48 S8 AP1 Heavy1 (30/40)
Starcannon R36 S6 AP2 Heavy2 (15/20)
EML krak R48 S8 AP3 Heavy1 (20/25)
EML plasma R48 S4 AP4 Heavy1, pinning, 3"blast (N/A)
For now where everything is in the FOC needs to be looked at, and the cost of vehicles,weapons and upgrades needs to have a once over. If anyone can help with these then i can move on to the next section. I'm unsure what to cost the walkers at, my experiances with them seem to be varied with little consistancy so other opinions would be welcome.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/01 18:01:50
WLD: 221 / 6 / 5
5 Dragons 2011: 2nd Overall
DT:80+S++G++M+B+I+Pw40k96++D++A++/mR+++T(T)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/01 18:42:40
Subject: Eldar Codex re-write v1.0
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Ok, I'll go first.
Farseers and Warlocks.
These are usually considered some of the more balanced units in most armies, even though I and others would argue that the powers as written is about diametrically opposite the powers described in terms of effect.
The power changes need to be described to further analyse the merits of a cost decrease.
Avatar.
Usually depicted as missing something, not a lot, but something.
Phoenix Lords.
Let's see what you did with Baharrotth, Cry of the Mewling Babe.
Elites.
Powers which are bought per model... The Eldar army need to work better non-mechanized and that means encouraging larger units. I'll reserve judgement, though.
Troops.
Aspect Warriors as troops will just further punish the existence of Guardians, I believe. There are other ways to get them to be troop choices (hint: current Wraithguards)
Guardians.
I am fully against cheap Guardians. They aren't humans who are under imperial order to shag their spouses and spill their blood for the Empire, they are Eldar who are under Farseer command not to be decadent and survive.
GJB.
What are the options? Considered giving them CC-weapon and Pistol, just to give them a charge option?
Fast Attack.
Over all, I like the "cheaper" on these.
War Walker Scout Squadron.
Hmm, as fast attack and unchanged, they would be a true powerhouse and flatten the other fast attack options in terms of performance, regardless of their cost.
Possibly making the second weapon TL.
Heavy Support.
Wraithlord Squadron.
Oooh, may be a tiny bit much. Spamming lords... I don't know.
Artillery.
Weapon changes are necessary. Possibly some other changes as well.
Suppression Platform.
I like the sound of this. Tell me more.
Falcon as dedicated transport.
Hmm... it's a gun platform. It brings guns to the field at high speed. It's a War Walker with high speed, tank shock capacity, and greater survivability. I don't know if it's viable as a dedicated transport!
Vehicle upgrades.
Overall I like them. Webway Drive doesn't really need to replace Star Engines as far as names go.
Shuriken Cannon.
Shuriken Cannon is currently Assault, which is something which could be capitalized upon rather than changed.
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I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/01 19:13:53
Subject: Eldar Codex re-write v1.0
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
Oregon
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I shall also take a crack at it.
Overall, you need to be specific. Saying "here are the fixes: We'll change things"... doesn't really illuminate anything.
HQ
The Autarch is NOT an exarch. He just isn't. Exarchs are lost on an aspect path - the autarch is not an exarch. He shouldn't have exarch powers. He shouldn't have exarch wargear. He isn't an exarch.
The PLs are exarchs. you should be more specific about changes you will make to the most lamented HQ choice in the codex.
ELITES
Thats it? Stat and wargear changes? You wouldn't change anything about dark reapers, who are the orphan child of the heavy support slot, or harlequins, who are paying 4th ed points for 5th ed rending? No effort to make the elite slot anything else than 3x fire dragons in wave serpents? As mahtamori said - we want to enable builds other than mechdar.
TROOPS
As Mahtamori said - you make aspect squads troops, and you kiss guardians goodbye. You already hardly ever see them because DAs are just better, but if you can take scoring .... scorpions? Hello outflanking 40-attacks-on-the-charge MTC assault specialists! I'd totally much rather have a 20 strong guardians unit with two platforms than that. Wait. No... I wouldn't. Again - we don't want the redesign of the codex to make some units completely obsolete. With a real buff to everything in the troops selection, and the addition of aspect warriors aside, why would anyone ever take defender guardians?
FAST ATTACK
I'll ask another question - why does everyone poopoo swooping hawks and shining spears - I'll give you a hint too. It isn't because they are too expensive. It is because they suck. They're just bad. Shining spears are a unit of 5 marine equivalents hovering several inches above the board on giant bikes (all means - no cover and no LoS blocking) that get a few PW attacks on the charge and promptly die shortly thereafter. Hawks simply have no offensive punch at all. If you put war walkers in FA, war walkers, which can pump out an insane amount of S6 spam at 36" on the cheap, why in hell would someone buy swooping hawks, shining spears, or warp spiders, which are all more fragile, more expensive, shorter ranged, and have less firepower. War walkers in fast attack make everything but vypers obsolete without major fixes.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Wraithlords - you wouldn't fix the twin-linked problem?
Arty - what does "extra crew options" mean - what exactly would you change on the profiles?
Grav Tanks - you wouldn't change these at all?
Guardians - hey - this looks like a viable troop unit! too bad it is heavy support. I would totally want to have a whole bunch of t3 5+ models over a squadron of wraithlords.
War Walker Combat Squadron - I'll take the cheaper version in fast attack, since, you know, theres a lot of other stuff in HS, and nothing in fast attack worth taking other than war walkers. Why pay for BS4 when you can just guide bs3 units?
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Wave Serpent - Reduce cost by 20 points
Falcon Grav Tank - BS 4
Storm Vyper - open topped armour 10 fast skimmer with transport capacity 6 and no turret gun
The only changes I agree with.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vehicle Upgrades
Vectored engines - Re-roll dangerous terrain tests - 10 points
Holo fields - Roll 2D6 for damage and pick the lowest result - 30 points
Spirit stones - Treat stunned results as shaken, treat shaken as nothing on a 5+ - 15 points
Plasma venting - Attackers in CC automatically take a S3 AP- hit - 10 points
Ok, except plasma is a S4 hit.
Webway drive - +50% to movement speeds - 30 points
no.... no. Fast Skimmers are already a special category of a special category. We have special movement rules.
Dedicated transports
- Wave serpent (BS3, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 12, fast, skimmer, tank.
70 points + weapons/upgrades.
shield rule remains the same.
- Storm vyper (BS3, 10-10-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, open-topped.
45 points, TL shuriken catapults, upgrade to (numerous) for x points.
- Falcon (BS4, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, tank.
90 points w/ pulse laser + weapons/upgrades
Ok. Although people will be taking 6 DA falcons with no upgrades to get their 90-point BS4 scoring pulse lasers. maybe even add holo fields. That would be 1080 points for 6 holo-fielded falcons. BS4 too. Can we stop encouraging mechspam, please?
vehicle weapon list and costs (in brackets, normal and TL)
Scatter laser R36 S6 AP6 Heavy4 (10/15)
Shuriken cannon R24 S6 AP4 Heavy3 (8/10)
Brightlance R48 S8 AP1 Heavy1 (30/40)
Starcannon R36 S6 AP2 Heavy2 (15/20)
EML krak R48 S8 AP3 Heavy1 (20/25)
EML plasma R48 S4 AP4 Heavy1, pinning, 3"blast (N/A)
If you notice, weapons have different costs in the codex based on the BS of the unit carrying it - this is because the same weapon on a BS4 platform is more effective than on a BS3 platform. Also, I notice you lost the lance rule for the brightlance, making it a bad lascannon for 30 points. Eldar players everywhere are loving that. Also, you're just encouraging S6 spam with the prices of those shurken cannons and scatter lasers (also the star cannon). And with the nerf to brightlances, you just cemented fire dragon's place as eldar's only source of reliable anti-tank. These changes murder everything other than mechdar dragon/da spam. You need more specifics too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/06/02 13:01:34
Subject: Eldar Codex re-write v1.0
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Mahtamori, thank you for your input, i shall adjust some things in this post and see how you feel then.
Gwyidion, the lose of the lance rule was a typo. And how can you get 6 scoring falcons full of DA when aspect warriors are a 0-2 choice for troops, however, i will add in a change to help combat this anyway.
Also, if something is not fully written out i will get to it in time (of which mine is limited)
HQ
I'll get to these.
ELITES
Fire Dragons
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Dire Avengers
Dark Reapers
Harlequins
- All the above, squad leaders built into unit 'base cost' with some stat/cost changes. Full units of 10 (5 for reapers) could get an Exarch power for free to encourage larger units
- Exact points/stat changes will be detailed later
TROOPS
0-2 Aspect Warriors - Full size units only
Wraithguard - 2 wounds each, 6+ invun save, immune to poisen - bought as 4 WG with lock minimum
Guardian defender squad - 1 platform per 10, defensive grenades
Guardian storm squad - 1 weapon per 5, assault grenades
Guardian jetbike squad - more heavy weapon options other than Shuriken cannon
Rangers
- Falcons are not an option as dedicated transport for any troops choice
FAST ATTACK
Warp Spiders - power changes
Swooping Hawks - cheaper, power changes
Shining Spears - cheaper
Vyper squadren - See below
War Walker scout squadren - See below
HEAVY SUPPORT
Wraithlord - Different load-outs depending on spirit inside
Wraithlord unit - 0-1 for every full WG unit, generic builds only
Artillery - Option to buy extra crew, option to arm crew with long barrel shuriken cannons, weapon profile changes
Grav Tank - see below
Guardian suppression squad - high density of platforms with long barreled shuriken catapults (R24, assault 1)
War Walker combat squadren - See below
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Wave Serpent - See below
Falcon Grav Tank - See below
Storm Vyper - See below
Vehicle Upgrades
Vectored engines - Re-roll dangerous terrain tests - 10 points
Holo fields - Rr-roll damage table results (not as powerful, in line with ven dreads, could backfire) - 25 points
Spirit stones - Treat stunned results as shaken, treat shaken as nothing on a 5+ - 15 points
Plasma venting - Attackers in CC automatically take a S3 AP- hit (not a full on plasma blast, just venting hot gases) - 10 points
Webway drive - +50% to movement speeds - 30 points
Webway drive explained.
cruising speed becomes 0.1" to 9"
combat speed becomes 9.1" to 18"
Flat out speed becomes 18.1" to 36"
Dedicated transports
- Wave serpent (BS3, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 12, fast, skimmer, tank.
70 points w/ TL shuriken catapults + weapons/upgrades (must buy 1 TL weapon)
shield rule remains the same.
- Storm vyper (BS3, 10-10-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, open-topped.
45 points, TL shuriken catapults + weapons/upgrades
- Falcon (BS4, 12-12-10) Transport capacity 6, fast, skimmer, tank.
90 points w/ pulse laser w/ TL shuriken catapults + weapons/upgrades (must buy 1 weapon)
Other vehicles
- Grav tanks (BS4, 12-12-10)
Fire prism (points?)
Night Spinner (points? not tested this one at all yet)
(other?)
- Vyper (BS3, 10-10-10)
35 points (TL shuriken catapult) + weapons/upgrades (must buy 1 weapon)
- Scout war walker (BS3, 10-10-10)
35 points + weapons/upgrades, scout (must but 2 weapons)
- combat war walker (BS4, 12-11-10)
40 points + weapons/upgrades (must buy 2 weapons)
vehicle weapon list and costs (in brackets, BS3 / BS4 / TL-BS3)
Scatter laser R36 S6 AP6 Heavy4 (10/12/14)
Shuriken cannon R24 S6 AP4 Heavy3 (8/10/12)
Brightlance R48 S8 AP1 Heavy1, lance (30/35/40)
Starcannon R36 S6 AP2 Heavy2 (15/18/21)
EML krak R48 S8 AP3 Heavy1 (20/23/26)
EML plasma R48 S4 AP4 Heavy1, pinning, 3"blast (N/A)
Re-worked the basic force org chart list, and modified the weapon and vehicle costs. Again, once these are sorted i will move onto the next section and detail the canges made in other areas more precisely.
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WLD: 221 / 6 / 5
5 Dragons 2011: 2nd Overall
DT:80+S++G++M+B+I+Pw40k96++D++A++/mR+++T(T)DM+
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