Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I recently bought a land raider Redeemer/Crusader and I am planning on making it magnetic so i can have all kinds of variant models. So I was looking on the GW for a quick reference on the land raider stats because this is my first land raider. I Noticed that the regular land raider has a troop capacity of 12 units according to the GW website. I quickly find my codex (Dark Angels) and compare. The (DA) Codex only says that it has a carrying capacity for 10 troops. So I call my friend and ask what his opinion was (plays Chaos which has alot of the same stats) on the matter. His codex says it can hold only 10 and I check the Chaos Land Raider on the web site and it says 10. What is up with the SM land raider?
here is a copy and paste of what i am talking about for reference right off of the website

Land Raider

BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Land Raider 4 14 14 14

Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Tank)
Wargear: Twin-linked heavy bolter; Two twin-linked lascannons; Smoke launchers; Searchlight
Transport Capacity: Twelve models
Special Rules: Power of the Machine Spirit; Assault Vehicle

Land Raider Crusader

BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Land Raider Crusader 4 14 14 14

Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Tank)
Wargear: Twin-linked assault cannon; Two Hurricane Bolters; Frag Assault Launcher; Smoke launchers; Searchlight
Transport Capacity: Sixteen models
Special Rules: Power of the Machine Spirit; Assault Vehicle


Land Raider Redeemer

BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Land Raider Redeemer 4 14 14 14

Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Tank)
Wargear: Twin-linked assault cannon; Two Flamestorm cannons; Frag Assault Launcher; Smoke launchers; Searchlight
Transport Capacity: Twelve models
Special Rules: Power of the Machine Spirit; Assault Vehicle

any help on the matter will be greatly appreciated.

Land Raiders have slightly different rules depending on the codex. The transport capacity for Land Raiders is your army is as listed in your codex.

Garvil_Loken wrote:So I recently bought a land raider Redeemer/Crusader and I am planning on making it magnetic so i can have all kinds of variant models. So I was looking on the GW for a quick reference on the land raider stats because this is my first land raider. I Noticed that the regular land raider has a troop capacity of 12 units according to the GW website. I quickly find my codex (Dark Angels) and compare. The (DA) Codex only says that it has a carrying capacity for 10 troops. So I call my friend and ask what his opinion was (plays Chaos which has alot of the same stats) on the matter. His codex says it can hold only 10 and I check the Chaos Land Raider on the web site and it says 10. What is up with the SM land raider?
here is a copy and paste of what i am talking about for reference right off of the website

Land Raiders vary in Transport capacity between variants and even between chapters.

For the most part, a Land Raider is 10, a LRC is 16 and a LRR is 12.
Black Templars LRC's have weird rules (15 Normal or 8 Termies) and Vanilla Land Raiders can hold 12 (because they obviously are all on diets, since their Pods can hold +2 models as well).

They also vary in what version of PotMS they have, their Upgrades and the cost of those upgrades.

No matter what the differences are though, whatever army you are using, you use those rules. Period. You cannot use Space Wolf Land Raider Redeemer in a Black Templars army, or a Vanilla Land Raider in a Blood Angels army. You have to use the one that's in your codex.

Yeah, I know, I think it's a Clusterf*&% too and I've been doing this for 11 years! This could all be fixed with a 2 minute errata, but alas, Games Workshop still live in 1988 where the Ruskies are king and the Interwebs are non real!

Now to jump onto the "Fluff" aspect:
The story of why the different Variants have different transport caps goes as thus.

At first there was only the normal Landraider, nicknamed the "Godhammer" as the Lascannons were "Godhammer Pattern Lascannons".
Then the Black Templar came along during the Armageddon Summer Campaign and introduced the Land Raider Crusader, which removed the Lascannons for Hurricane Bolters. Since the massive power generators the Lascannons needed were no longer there, there was more room inside for warm bodies.

Then GW needed some excuse to try and sell more Land Raiders and other expensive vehicles so they pulled the Land Raider Redeemer out their arse thin air, along with Land Speeder Storms and Thunderfire Cannons and Ironclad Dreads, despite them never having any sort of indication of existence and in complete contradiction to both the Space Marines role as mobile shock assault and the whole fluff behind the stagnation of the Imperiums Technology. </rant>

I was going to use the rules out of my codex because they are hard facts but i was just wanting clarification on the fact. Thanks for the Quick response... now my next question is since the land raider Redeemer is not in my DA codex I can't use it and can only use the hurricane bolters for the Crusader... correct?

As a CSM player- yes my land raider is 'n gimped, stop rubbing it in my face!


-edit- what your codex says you get, you get bro. No cross referencing. Which is why CSM have no POTMS, no redeemer/crusader, no multimelta on top, and a carry capacity of 10. If you ain't got a crusader/redeemer in your codex, you ain't got no crusader/redeemer in your army

Garvil_Loken wrote:I was going to use the rules out of my codex because they are hard facts but i was just wanting clarification on the fact. Thanks for the Quick response... now my next question is since the land raider Redeemer is not in my DA codex I can't use it and can only use the hurricane bolters for the Crusader... correct?

Correct. Don't forget the hull weapon is different as well on Godhammer Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders, not just the Sponsons.

Sadly, you picked the crap marine codex. :(

My suggestion to you is unless you are set on playing a Deathwing or Ravenwing army, paint your models as Dark Angels, but use the Space Marines codex. That way you have all the updated rules and shiny new toys!

Gwar! wrote:My suggestion to you is unless you are set on playing a Deathwing or Ravenwing army, paint your models as Dark Angels, but use the Space Marines codex. That way you have all the updated rules and shiny new toys!

QFT. I like DA, but if i did collect an army at this point, i would probably have a copy of both codices and mainly use the SM one, and use the DA one for ravenwing or deathwing armies mainly.

I Like the DA codex personally but some updates to make it the 5th edition are needed. I really don't have much armor mainly I have allot of infantry and heavy weapons. Just got the LRC / LRR and a predator to add to my rhino, vindicator, and other predator. I was going mainly for 16 troop cap to move around my termies or any other troop around the field.

Garvil_Loken wrote:I Like the DA codex personally but some updates to make it the 5th edition are needed. I really don't have much armor mainly I have allot of infantry and heavy weapons. Just got the LRC / LRR and a predator to add to my rhino, vindicator, and other predator. I was going mainly for 16 troop cap to move around my termies or any other troop around the field.

Aye, some updates are needed, and you can get them in the SM codex!

Like Jihallah said, the best solution really is to get both codexes, and use DA for Deathwing and Ravenwing and SM for normal armies.
The great thing is this is the ONE time in 40k where it's considered "acceptable" to chop and change between games! DA really do suck that bad!

You said you were gonna magnamatron the Land Raider, and that's a good move. Two for the price of one and all that. Not to mention you can take the Land Raider as a Transport for your termies in the Nilla codex (I cannot remember if you can for DA) which means you can use the LR, Two Preds and the Vindi all at once!

BOO HISS!..
Don't listen to that heretical advice "play DA using the Space marine codex." It's a lame ass way to get around your army's rules.

You want to pay DA use the DA codex, you want to play Ultramarine.. Use the SM codex...ect.

For the Record, I'm a DA player True and True and I am partial to the Chapter.

Gwar! wrote: Not to mention you can take the Land Raider as a Transport for your termies in the Nilla codex (I cannot remember if you can for DA) which means you can use the LR, Two Preds and the Vindi all at once

Yeah I can use it as a transport for my termies that's why I went with the crusader and the troop cap of 16 (8 termies).

AtraAngelis wrote: For the Record, I'm a DA player True and True and I am partial to the Chapter.

I am kind of partial to the chapter too since I read decent of angels (Horus Heresy) and going to read fallen angels after thousand sons.

I had thought of doing the dual codex's but didn't feel like forking over the money for another rule book. I am also starting to magnetize most of my vehicles since they come with spare parts (sorry vindi you only have one weapon).

Quick warning: the first Horus dark angels book is...dire. The second is a LOT better!

Funny, I felt it was the other way around...

Speaking of confusion, the pattern-name of Lascannon-carrying Land Raiders is Phobos, while the pattern of the Lascannons is Godhammer. Say it with me: "Phobos Pattern Land Raiders carry Godhammer Pattern Lascannons."

Excellent.

Something else worth mentioning is that the Chaos Land Raider is cheap as borsch, and can take Daemonic Possession to make it entirely immune to Stunned and Shaken results at a cost that is negligible considering its Twin-Linked armament. If you really need a Melta weapon, take a Combi-Melta, though rather than immediately driving your Land Raider into Melta range, consider using its Lascannons to crack enemy transports...

THe chaos LR is only 30 points cheaper (iirc) and loses machine spirit which lets you move the transport vehicle and fire both lascannons...

Normal (lascannon) land raider has space for twelve models cause the generators take up a lot of space.

Redeemers similarly can only take 12 cause they have massive promethium tanks taking up space.

Land Raider Crusader can take sixteen models cause the ammo storage for the Hurricane Boltes takes up a lot less space.

Nurglitch wrote:Funny, I felt it was the other way around...

Speaking of confusion, the pattern-name of Lascannon-carrying Land Raiders is Phobos, while the pattern of the Lascannons is Godhammer. Say it with me: "Phobos Pattern Land Raiders carry Godhammer Pattern Lascannons."

Yay!
Someone else know this too! And gets it right!
22 interwebs to Nurglitch

The use of "Godhammer" when referring to a standard Land Raider pre-dates the fluff name "Phobos" by a decade. Calling it a Phobos is more of an indicator of how new a person is to 40k, while calling it a Godhammer is a way of showing how long your beard is.

SJ

I have a beard actually.

jeffersonian000 wrote:The use of "Godhammer" when referring to a standard Land Raider pre-dates the fluff name "Phobos" by a decade. Calling it a Phobos is more of an indicator of how new a person is to 40k, while calling it a Godhammer is a way of showing how long your beard is.

SJ

Agreed!
I remember when Space Wolves used to be Good!

jeffersonian000 wrote: Calling it a Phobos is more of an indicator of how new a person is to 40k

But you cannot say that new people are a bad thing.
And I called it phobos yet i have played 40k for 3-4 years. (i think)
And while you my call this new i have quite a bit of knowledge about 40K and am a competant general.

VikingScott wrote:

jeffersonian000 wrote: Calling it a Phobos is more of an indicator of how new a person is to 40k

But you cannot say that new people are a bad thing.
And I called it phobos yet i have played 40k for 3-4 years. (i think)
And while you my call this new i have quite a bit of knowledge about 40K and am a competant general.

Nowhere was it said being new was a bad thing.

What he was getting at was that calling it a Phobos shows you are newer to 40k than someone calling it a Godhammer, and not the other way around which is what Nurglitch was implying (I think).

Gwar! wrote:Nowhere was it said being new was a bad thing.

What he was getting at was that calling it a Phobos shows you are newer to 40k than someone calling it a Godhammer, and not the other way around which is what Nurglitch was implying (I think).

I'm probably just being cranky.
But it could be the fact that i'm a video gamer 1st and in that world being new is bad so that might have been how my mind took it due to my obssesion with games.

It also depends on how new or how old the gamer is in warammer... see the following table for how it is in my store.

Very new - Looses most games, cheats (knowingly or unwittingly) Bad sportsmanship, lack of basic rules knowledge
Kinda new - Getting better, iffy on alot of rules, still looses most games
Been here a while - winning more games now, knows most of the rules, good sportsmanship
Veteran - Against other vets, games are hard fought, good sportsmanship, good rules knowledge
Older Veteran - Against other vets, games are hard fought, great sportmanship, great rules knowledge (sometimes confusing rules with older editions)
Very old veteran - Smells a bit funny, avoided in general, cheats often, seems bitter and talks about the 'good old days' way to much




Automatically Appended Next Post:
although there are exceptions to this...

I think i fit into Older Vet despite my age due to me confuseing 4th with 5th still.
Problem was that i had an ecyclopedic knowledge of 4th ed rules.
The rest can of older vet apllies too

I might say that the iron clad could come from the warhammer siege book from rogue trader :-) T10 walker dreads in there.

the thunderfire and other stuff... uhm yea i guess a new pattern was found.

I find it amusing (and saddening) that my WH Land Raiders can only fit 10 normal sized models, but can cram 12 of the same size into the much smaller Chimera.

Edit:

Also my Land Raiders don't have the Assault Vehicle special rule. Sad face.

Corennus wrote:
Normal (lascannon) land raider has space for twelve models cause the generators take up a lot of space.

Redeemers similarly can only take 12 cause they have massive promethium tanks taking up space.

Land Raider Crusader can take sixteen models cause the ammo storage for the Hurricane Boltes takes up a lot less space.

What codex are you getting the normal land raider can hold 12 units from? Space Marine? because in my codex I can only hold 10 on a normal land raider.

Also IIRC The redeemer's promethium tanks are outside the vehicle.

SM codex pg. 142.

That#'s 5th Edition. Which one are you using Garvil?

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Also my Land Raiders don't have the Assault Vehicle special rule. Sad face.

at least you get the super sponson rule as a consolation prize as well as initiative 10 terminators. smiley face??

Garvil_Loken wrote:What codex are you getting the normal land raider can hold 12 units from? Space Marine? because in my codex I can only hold 10 on a normal land raider.

i don't know if this was a planned specific boost to vanilla marines only as it only appears in their book (along with extended cab drop pods with capacity 12) or if GW simply realized their mistake and changed it back (like with no point cost upgrade TH/SS combos).

oh, and gwar, SW are still pretty awesome. they're just not completely broken like in the glory days of 2nd and 3rd edition.