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What happens when you charge one unit with two scout units, disembarking out of different Land Speeder Storms? -4 to leadership?

I don't have the SM codex here but most likely not unless it specifically states that they stack. Once it occurs it occurs. Its all about meeting that condition of being at -2 to ld.

Orion_44 wrote:I don't have the SM codex here but most likely not unless it specifically states that they stack. Once it occurs it occurs. Its all about meeting that condition of being at -2 to ld.

It says, "any enemy units that the Scouts assault have their Leadership reduced by 2 for the duration of that assault phase."

So I would say yes, they would stack. It doesn't say anything about "reduced to a minimum of. . ." and there are no other restrictions. It simply says, "reduce the Leadership by 2".

puma713 wrote:

Orion_44 wrote:I don't have the SM codex here but most likely not unless it specifically states that they stack. Once it occurs it occurs. Its all about meeting that condition of being at -2 to ld.

It says, "any enemy units that the Scouts assault have their Leadership reduced by 2 for the duration of that assault phase."

So I would say yes, they would stack. It doesn't say anything about "reduced to a minimum of. . ." and there are no other restrictions. It simply says, "reduce the Leadership by 2".

Incorrect.

They don't stack, for the same reason Astropaths or Hive Tyrants don't stack. Once you apply the mod once, it satisfies both rules.

Take a look again at the rule.

"Any enemy units that the Scouts assault have their Leadership reduced by 2 for the duration of that assault phase."

So, you have a unit that has been assaulted by 2 units of scouts.

They now have 2 special rules, saying "Your Ld is reduced by 2".
Once you apply the -2 mod, both rules are happy, because the units ld has been reduced by -2.

Gwar! wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Orion_44 wrote:I don't have the SM codex here but most likely not unless it specifically states that they stack. Once it occurs it occurs. Its all about meeting that condition of being at -2 to ld.

It says, "any enemy units that the Scouts assault have their Leadership reduced by 2 for the duration of that assault phase."

So I would say yes, they would stack. It doesn't say anything about "reduced to a minimum of. . ." and there are no other restrictions. It simply says, "reduce the Leadership by 2".

Incorrect.

They don't stack, for the same reason Astropaths or Hive Tyrants don't stack. Once you apply the mod once, it satisfies both rules.

Take a look again at the rule.

"Any enemy units that the Scouts assault have their Leadership reduced by 2 for the duration of that assault phase."

So, you have a unit that has been assaulted by 2 units of scouts.

They now have 2 special rules, saying "Your Ld is reduced by 2".
Once you apply the -2 mod, both rules are happy, because the units ld has been reduced by -2.

I see where you're coming from, but why is the Leadership staying the same when two different modifiers are affecting it?

My scout unit declares an assault against your tactical squad. My 2nd unit declares an assault against your tactical squad. You have two mods coming in that say "reduce your Ld by 2" not "Your Ld is reduced by 2." Those are two different statements. If it said, "Your Ld is reduced by 2", then both units would be satisfied, because the Ld has already been reduced by 2. But, instead, the rule is telling the enemy unit to reduce it by 2, not that it "is reduced". The first unit assaults and the enemy's Ld is 8. A second unit assaults the enemy and then is affected by another modifier. Why does that suddenly cancel one of them out? You've satisfied one of them by reducing the Ld by 2, but if you were to satisfy both, it would reduce it by 4.

And, in response to the Hive Tyrant and Astropath examples: Nothing says that the Hive Tyrant's can't stack (except other players); the only reasoning that GW gives to why Astropath's can't stack is because having more than one confers a different advantage, not multiple +1's (and they finish with a fluff explanation); Eldar Autarchs can stack their bonuses. The wording on the hive tyrant and the autarch are almost identical, save for the autarch can choose to add one or not.

puma713 wrote:Nothing says that the Hive Tyrant's can't stack

Sorry mate, that's not how the 40k rules work.

Nothing says my Grey Hunters don't have S10. Nothing says my Blood Claws can't roll 8D6 for running. Nothing says that I can't just roll a D6 and on a 1+ I autowin.

The rules in 40k say what you CAN do, not what you can't. The rules don't say they stack, so they do not.

Gwar! wrote:

puma713 wrote:Nothing says that the Hive Tyrant's can't stack

Sorry mate, that's not how the 40k rules work.

Nothing says my Grey Hunters don't have S10. Nothing says my Blood Claws can't roll 8D6 for running. Nothing says that I can't just roll a D6 and on a 1+ I autowin.

The rules in 40k say what you CAN do, not what you can't. The rules don't say they stack, so they do not.

So why do Autarchs?

puma713 wrote:So why do Autarchs?

They don't, RaW. In order for them to stack you have to house rule it (The house rule in this case being the GW FAQ).

Gwar! wrote:

puma713 wrote:So why do Autarchs?

They don't, RaW. In order for them to stack you have to house rule it (The house rule in this case being the GW FAQ).

Heh heh. M'kay Gwar! You keep grinding out those FAQ's. It's noble work you're doing.

To the OP: I believe that they do stack, because the scouts say "the scout squad", not "a scout squad". You must reduce the leadership by 2 for each on attacking to satisfy the rules for each one. You don't have a choice either. You can't choose to reduce the leadership. If you reduce it by 2 (again, not "Leadership is reduced" but "Reduce leadership", because those are two different statements) for one scout squad and then don't for another, you've broken the rules.

There's a big debate about the similar wording in this rule, the Hive Tyrant's/Astropaths/Autarch, etc. etc:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/242506.page#758170

Where it explains the logic behind it. It refers to astropaths a lot (which were ruled a single +1, but for entirely separate reasons), but the logic and the reasoning are sound.