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With the new edition of Fantasy coming out, I figured now would be a good time to pick up that Ogre Kingdoms battalion box I've had my eye on. Are there any tips you veteran Tyrants out there could give me? Thanks in advance.

Well I'm not sure that there is a huge amount that anyone can say as the new rules look like they are going to have a big change on Ogres. However they do look like they are going to bring ogres back into competitive gaming.

The advice I can give at the moment is-

Use Ironguts as troops. Currently they are much better. This may change with new rules, but it's unlikely.

Tyrants are very important, they can really change how a fight is going. Tyrants can take out most other characters easily. Lots of people give them the tenderiser, but against some enemies siegebreaker can be very good.

Leadbelchers are very hit or miss. Some people love them others hate them.

Gnoblars are actually quite good. They get a lot of short ranged shots. With the new rules they will become even better.

Maneaters are very good especially with Cathayan longswords.

In the new rules Gorger spam could be very nasty. With Skrag they become even better, so if you do take a few it may be worth using him.

Ogres really don't get any better with the new edition.

One of their few strengths was their 12" charge letting them get their attacks in first. They are all initiative 2 so they will be going after most everything.

Ogres get some new bonuses from larger units namely easier rank bonuses and attacks from the second rank. However in order to get +1 CR you have to buy six ogres which is a minimum of 210 points and that is a unit of bulls which are terrible. +1 Cr isn't a big deal and they run into their previous issue where the majority is WS3 with almost no re-rolls to hit. You'll get more attacks with your stuff but will be facing many more in return and probably before you. With only T4 and very little armor it will not work in your favor.

Leadbelchers don't really get affected by the changes much. Being able to fire in two ranks is neat but they are too expensive to really take advantage of that.

Maneaters are terrible. They are very, very expensive for models with 3 wounds, T4 and a 5+ save (meaningless against most everything). They sound impressive until a few units of hand-gunners kills them in a turn or two.

They used to be able to break ranks with two models, now they need six (aka a full second rank). That's a huge nerf since the chances of them not taking casualties is slim so you will need to buy units larger than six in order to have six guys by the time you are in position to flank.

They will almost always have less ranks than their opponent so almost all their enemies will be stubborn.

There will be no Gorger spam since you are still only allowed two of the same type of rare.

I would predict that they come out overall as a wash or slightly worse. Lose some stuff, gain some others but still end up near the bottom of the ladder.

Leadbelchers are good in small units, I'd suggest two units of two which you can maneuver. Remember they only shoot once every two turns so for them to be useful they need to be able to maneuver into the best spots.

Ironguts and Bulls are both great choices, Bulls at the moment best in threes, though with the new edition apparently you only need three at the back for a rank bonus so six will work just as well.

Gnoblars are excellent, especially if a large target like a giant comes in throwing range as with the large target rules the whole regiment will shoot. Which comes to 40 attacks at least for the unit.

Scraplaunchers are actually surprisingly good being both a war machine and chariot, I'd definitely include one ni your army.

Yhetees are the fastest thing Ogres can take at movement 7, and are the only things in the army to flee or chase 3D6, not forgetting they can move freely over normally impassable terrain. With magical attacks a unit is a good match for even a treeman, they are quite expensive but I'd definitely have one in your army.

Slave Giants are a pretty strong choice, though not nearly as effective as regular giants, especially with their stubbornness gone. Still they have potential.

Maneaters are great, their seriously tough, stubborn and can have a selection of different weapons.

Gorgers are great for Warmachine Hunting, hitting the sides of enemy units or Character hunting, though it's always preferable to have two instead of just one

As for your HQ, well that's all down to how you want to use them, I use Goldtooth cos he's dead hard and I love his model, as well as a Hunter for his Harpoon Crossbow

Slave Giants are one of the worst things in the game; seriously take advantage of the fact that the ogre book still has a dogs of war entry and buy the regular giant.

Once you start buying gear for the Maneaters they are about 100 points a model. Ask yourself if a 300 point unit with 9 wounds is going to get across the table, especially now that shooting and magic have gotten nastier.

I think Ogres will stand a fighting chance with the new edition, but it's hard to know exactly what to do with them yet. Revisit this in 2 weeks when the book is in stores for pre-order (and reading through ) and you'll get more info

Actually Maneaters are only 90 when given all the upgrades possible.

Slave Giants aren't as aweful as made out to be, I've had some success with mine.

But Yeah a regular Dogs of War Giant would be a much better choice

Ixquic wrote:I would predict that they come out overall as a wash or slightly worse. Lose some stuff, gain some others but still end up near the bottom of the ladder.

8th is apparently doing a lot to benefit 'big infantry' - three-wide ranks, extra crush attaks, big guys in second rank receive full attaks, etc - but I think that the meta-change to all blocks all the time can't possibly help ogres out. I find that the hardest thing for my ogres to handle are SCR5 blocks of almost anything, and apparently those are going to be everywhere. You see, the biggest problem with OK is that they're a combat army which is embarrassingly poor at fighting.

At first there appears to be some hope, despite the loss of flanking. Let's say in 8th you take 6 bulls (+1CR for rank), with a standard for objective control (+1CR for std) and luckily get the charge (+1CR for charging), though that last one was reliably easier to do in 7th. Weirdly enough those ogres are actually up 3 CR to begin, and assuming everybody fights, even with inevitable loses due to crap init they could still win combat! Except the enemy block pops stubborn and the ogres are boned. That stubborn rule (theoretically) exists to stop monsters and small units from blowing through blocks. Sadly this is the whole ogre army.

Ixquic gets to the heart of the problem: the OK book is drunkenly overcosted. I have a feeling that every ogre player who sticks with it learns first hand what things are actually impressive (tyrants, gorgers, gnoblars), what are almost worth their points (bulls, guts, belchers, gut magic?), what are stupidly expensive for no survival bonus (maneaters, yhetees), and what are very obviously toys to be taken for fun and flavor (slave giants, scrappies, hunters?). With my ogres I find myself taking what irritates me least, which is a pretty weird way to deal with your army's book!

8th holds no excitement for me, though I'm getting over my rage at its existence. What I am excited to see are the July 10th erratas, that's the gak we (ogre & all warhammer players) actually need.

- Salvage