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If going with groundpounding SM army is it worth going for gunline, or trying to get as many assault squads in as possible to take the fight to the enemy?

I say go with nothing but Scouts, and minimize the amount of ground you even have to cover. A good mix of CC and bolter Scouts should do the trick.

A slightly more serious answer, though, is that Marines seem to make for better gunlines than mass-charging forces. Pack a ton of Missile Launchers, use Dreads for distraction and interception, stand in cover, and camp those objectives like it's going out of style. People don't expect Marines to have numbers on their side, but covering your objectives with cheap Tac Squads and Devastators can be surprisingly tough to crack.

If you want to just drown your opponents in a sea of 3+ saves, switch to Chaos Marines and field nothing but Kharne and 20-person squads of Berzerkers. Now there's a fun list.

I agree in part with alanedomain, mostly with regard to switching to another codex if you want CC MEQ Horde. Every single marine codex does this better than Co:SM. Everyone except nilla marines has 2 attacks base for troop choices (1 base + 2 cc weapons).

Then only way I would consider all foot assault with Co:SM would be CC Scouts and Shrike so they get fleet.

Otherwise choose a different dex.

I do have Codex:Chaos Space Marines. but been concentrating on creating a Space Marine army.

I guess I could dabble in a Khorneite CC army.....

BT is awful nice for a Footslogging Close combat army

Preferred enemy for the entire army,

Extra movement towards the enemy when you take a casuality.

ehh, I have heard blood angels are fantastic too, but I don't have much experience with them

Yeah I was thinking of Black Templars. Problem is I love the iconography, I love the fact EVERYONE gets chainswords...
I don't like Righteous Zeal.

Think about it. Unless they have a chaplain directing them:

Say you have a tactical squad moving to reinforce another BT squad who are in CC and you REALLY need them to get there and help out.
Your enemy takes a shot at the squad coming to help and takes down a Marine.
That squad automatically moves 6" towards the offending enemy squad, and AWAY from where you want them to go!
Possible result: Two dead tac squads cause of a single casualty.

Corennus wrote:Yeah I was thinking of Black Templars. Problem is I love the iconography, I love the fact EVERYONE gets chainswords...
I don't like Righteous Zeal.

Think about it. Unless they have a chaplain directing them:

Say you have a tactical squad moving to reinforce another BT squad who are in CC and you REALLY need them to get there and help out.
Your enemy takes a shot at the squad coming to help and takes down a Marine.
That squad automatically moves 6" towards the offending enemy squad, and AWAY from where you want them to go!
Possible result: Two dead tac squads cause of a single casualty.

Everyone doesn't get chainswords, Crusaders get a Bolt pistol and a CCW, (can be a chain sword, axe, broken bottle, big knife, whatever)



Just an FYI, the RZ move is UP to D6 inches...

UP to means 0 to D6...

I move 0 inches all the time

Surely you have to move a minimum of 1" if RZ is in effect?

If you play vanilla Marines, I'd consider a shooty army with counter-strike abilities.
Normal Marines are not geared towards assault. There are much better assault units out there in the 40k universe.

Corennus wrote:Surely you have to move a minimum of 1" if RZ is in effect?

"Must move up to D6 inches"


It says in RZ that it is just like a consolidation move... are you forced to move the max amount on a consolidation move?

Nope...


you can move .00000000000000000000000000000000001 inches if you want

Ah ok....

Was rereading old White Dwarf issue where they'd just brought out Codex: BT. They are really quite hard to kill, but easy to mislead lol

RZ is easy to get around with the 1/1000th of an inch movement thing so unless you want to move that way then you don't have to.



Shrike is cool paired with scouts, but he can also do that to other squads.

one guy would always have him with his Assault terminators. Fleet assault terminators are nasty.

Wouldn't Scouts lose the Infiltrate Rule?

They wouldn't gain the See, But Remain Unseen rule I don't think.....

no, they lose the ability to Combat squad for Fleet and they already have infiltrate from scout so its doesn't make a difference.

Actually, can't they still Combat Squad they just can't Combat Tactics, so you can't control your leadership tests (Or I think that's what it did/does)

yes, Combat Squads is a different rule.

If going for gunline though I think you should try and get anti-armour weapons on the tac teams and go with anti infantry (HB or ML) on the Dev squads.

That way you save points on stuff like lascannons and plasma cannons, and means you can take out the enemy#s armour hopefully more easily since your lascannons aren't all in one place (and are protected by 9 bodies instead of 4)

of course it is probably best to avoid over priced Devestator squads completely and get your anti-infantry in the form of tanks.

Dakka predators are much cheaper then an equivilant amount of Devestators. 3 will give all the Anti-infantry you will need.

or you can do 3 Vindicators. they should hide behind cover or your other units untill the enemy gets close and then you can let rip.

i find missile launchers nice because you can turn your tactics on a dime. you can switch from anti infantry to light anti tank from turn to turn which is really nice in my opinion.

Well i'm currently going for lascannons and plasma cannons on my 4 tac squads supported by Typhoon landspeeder, and if I go up to 1500 points bringing in two squads of missile launcher Devs.

Predators are nice but a) haven't got any and b) a 10 man Dev squad has more survivability than an AV 11 side armour tank (yes AV 13 is nice and you get same firepower for around 100 points as a Dev squad but I want to use mine!)


Basically at 1500 points the Dev squads wi;; be mostly anti-infantry (4 blast templates on infantry squads = a lot less infantry) with the lascannons and typhoon taking on anti armour (AV 11 - 13) and the plasma cannons taking out HQ or opportunity targets.

I say it matters what enemy your facing. If your facing Orks i suggest you go with a shooty army so they cant get close, but keep 1 assult squad incase they do. if your facing Tau try to get into CC ASAP!

whats better then 4 missile Devs(and ALOT cheaper too) is a typhoon landspeeder. it has 2 missiles and a heavy bolter for the same price as a naked Dev squad with no upgrades. and it can move and fire.

if you keep your typhoons in cover(50% rule for squadrons) and at least 30" away from your opponent then they become very hard to kill.

As a guard player, I can honestly say that if you decide to run a gunline with marines, you will lose... badly... every time. At least, against a guard player. Also, you'd have a tough time against tau, or anybody else who can do gunlines better. Oh, and against hordes that can shrug off a marine gunline's pathetic firepower. Oh, and against armies that are highly mobile (including things like drop pods), thus negating the benefits of heavy weapons.

In all the time I've played 40k, I've only lost to a marine army twice. Both times it was against drop pod marines who barely left anything in the backfield. Against marines who go gunline, I have a nasty habit of sweeping them off the board by turn 4, like this guy.

As such, I would highly advise against a gunline marine army, as it already wasn't successful in 4th ed, and I can't imagine that they're anything but less successful in 5th. If you want a horde of marines, you're really going to have to go for close-range fire superiority (really use those bolters) or assault. If you need assault marines or bikes or drop pods to pull it off, then so be it.

I have a landspeeder Typhoon in my army. Just haven't got any more than one.

Gunline marine requires... Counter-attack element and vehicles. 5th Ed puts a premium on vehicle armor saves and the ability to restrict enemy lines of fire is invaluable. The only gunline I would think of would be a rhino or razorback hoard some cheap predators (relative to the cost of an equivalent devastator squad) and some landspeeders for speed.

If you absolutely want groundpounders, go with a CC-oriented army. Now given a choice to me that means BA, SW or Chaos. BA's for a boatload of assault marines, SW for the interesting combos, or Chaos that provides some of the best variations. The limitation of CSM is more with some dated HQ choices but much better troop selections. Between Chosen, massed special weapons, 20-man marine squads and the like, I think CSM is the more intimidating. You just need to decide in a 5th edition world on foot, can you live without anti-psyker for better troops.

i have codex:Chaos Space Marines. Just have never thought of doing a Chaos army.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Possible Assault Force:

Chaplain
Jump Pack

115

Troops

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
x 1 ML
x 5 Camo Cloaks

110

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
x 1 ML
x 5 Camo Cloaks

110

Fast Attack / Assault

Vanguard Veteran Squad (10 man)
Sergeant: Lightning Claw
x 4 Lightning Claws
Jump Packs x 10

390

Landspeeder Squadron (3)
Typhoon Missile Launchers

270



Taken Vanguard for the ridiculous amount of attacks, plus rerolled failed rolls to hit (chaplain) and 5 rerolled failed rolls to hit (lightning claws)

Plus they can all shoot (all have bolt Pistols)

So that's 44 attacks on the charge........vanguards rock.

Yes Vanguard are awesome . . . They're just ludicrously expensive =p

I'd much rather go with loads of Assault Marines HEHE!

Oshova

Yeah for the points of the vanguard I could take 2 ten man assault squads........

but I like the ability to take 4 lightning claws in the same squad!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW if I only have one scout squad painted (and not with sniper rifles) is it ok to use a 5 man tac squad and say "counts as scouts with Snipers?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually if I take two normal tac squads (5 man) I could give sergeants storm bolters and chainswords.
That way they don't sacrifice range for cc weapon....

Hole the 2 tac squads up in some buildings (4+ cover save for those weapons that are str 8) and bring the vanguard vet squad in from reserve via thunderhawk deep strike when needed.

Tornado acts as anti-armour sniper.

take some assault specialists. I've had my whole imperial guard line rooled up once. All thanks to 2 5 man squads of assault marines.

Against Orks or Imperial Guard I can see how an assault squad would rock.

The Vanguards losing their Heroic Intervention to reroll failed rolls to hit sucks a bit........
BUT THEY GET TO REROLL 44 attacks on the charge!!