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In response to some of the posters in this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/297406.page

Just thought I'd throw a poll up there to get a concensus, since there were some insisting that there wasn't one.

Again, this isn't a poll about whether you're right or not, but how you play it. The thread above is the thread to discuss the ambiguity of the rule.

I pay it as an autohit but am not voting as the poll (imo) is not written in a neutral and unbiased format.

Really, Gwar! I don't think it's that bad, but I might not be interpreting it the same way you are.

All three options make as much logical sense as each other (very little).

I voted for the auto hit. No one in my gaming group has every questioned it.

That being said, it was really just an assumption that it worked because they didn't move in game. Never actually went to read the rules to find the whole "previous turn" clause.

If someone at the FLGS wanted to play 4+ I would certainly be willing to give it to them.

Gwar! wrote:I pay it as an autohit but am not voting as the poll (imo) is not written in a neutral and unbiased format.

Still got a chip on your shoulder about that, eh?

Saldiven wrote:Really, Gwar! I don't think it's that bad, but I might not be interpreting it the same way you are.

I don't think he really believes that it is unbiased. I was trying to put as little bias as I could in the answers. Once there was a poll (I'll see if I can dredge it up) that was clearly biased. He was called on it and it was locked. I think this is stemming from that, still.

No, not at all. It is Bias because it makes assumptions on the Reasons why people are voting a particular way.

I might want to vote Autohit, but because the Banana God told me to. Your poll doesn't allow me to do that, while the Unbiased poll format Yakface does (with Option A,B,C with JUST the facts, no assumptions as to why you are voting one way or the other) does. Yes I'm being a bit silly but the fact remains that it is not a neutral poll.

Edit: On further Reflection, I have voted Other. I play Autohit because the Coconut Deity wishes it so.

Gwar! wrote:No, not at all. It is Bias because it makes assumptions on the Reasons why people are voting a particular way.

I might want to vote Autohit, but because the Banana God told me to. Your poll doesn't allow me to do that, while the Unbiased poll format Yakface does (with Option A,B,C with JUST the facts, no assumptions as to why you are voting one way or the other) does.

Really? You couldn't vote "Other Option" and then put "Auto-hit, because the Banana God told me to"?

The assumptions on why people are voting a certain way were pulled from the above thread in which these "assumptions" were discussed as reasons for determining the ruling. I didn't just make them up.

puma713 wrote:I don't think he really believes that it is unbiased. I was trying to put as little bias as I could in the answers. Once there was a poll (I'll see if I can dredge it up) that was clearly biased. He was called on it and it was locked. I think this is stemming from that, still.

Someone on the internet, holding a grudge about something stupid? No.... That could never happen (SARCSASM)

Gwar! wrote:I play Autohit because the Coconut Deity wishes it so.

I was under the impression the Coconut Deity was more of a WHFB type guy.....

I see your point, Gwar! I think that the parenthetical parts of the options were merely there to illustrate examples of why someone might pick that option. That's why I didn't see any bias there.

Saldiven wrote:I see your point, Gwar! I think that the parenthetical parts of the options were merely there to illustrate examples of why someone might pick that option. That's why I didn't see any bias there.

Exactly. Not that those are the only options for the reason you chose those options.

Just out of curiosity, if the dice had fallen the other way for first turn would the tank owner state that his vehicle counted as having moved for shooting purposes or would it be a case of 'shoot everything it hasn't moved'.

I play it as autohit because the Cabbage god told me to.

I play it differently depending on the opponent. It's one of those things that rarely comes up, and when it does just needs a quick discussion before the game.

Often, for fluff reasons, it depends on what kind of vehicle it is and what kind of movement it is likely to take during the game

Well, the way the questions are worded do seem to gloss over a few of the problems.

Not laying out that the rules clearly do not provide a RAW answer to cover this is introducing some bias. Some people will not read the thread and just think that the rules really do cover first turn cc, never having looked at the rules NOT covering this situation.

People play it as an auto hit against a vehicle that has taken a scout move? That isnt being taken into consideration the way the questions are being laid out. So the wording of the alternatives should be a little better, some people are probably not even considering that they may have moved a vehicle across the table using its movement allowance already.

So the poll could have been set up a bit better to allow people a clearer understanding of the problem.

Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Well, the way the questions are worded do seem to gloss over a few of the problems.

Not laying out that the rules clearly do not provide a RAW answer to cover this is introducing some bias. Some people will not read the thread and just think that the rules really do cover first turn cc, never having looked at the rules NOT covering this situation.

People play it as an auto hit against a vehicle that has taken a scout move? That isnt being taken into consideration the way the questions are being laid out. So the wording of the alternatives should be a little better, some people are probably not even considering that they may have moved a vehicle across the table using its movement allowance already.

So the poll could have been set up a bit better to allow people a clearer understanding of the problem.

Sliggoth

Except the poll is "how do you play it", not "how do you think it should be played". People don't have to read the other thread. I simply put it there in case they wanted to argue about it. This is simply, how do you play? The descriptions of the options are simply there to illustrate a reason why you might choose that option.

Except the poll description of the options are indeed misleading, since the one thing that the thread on this did hammer out very solidly was that the rules simply do not cover first turn cc. We may well have ideas on what *should* happen, but the RAW simply doesnt address anything, since all the RAW choices presume that the vehicles have had a previous turn.

Yes, there are interpretations of what the RAI is, and thats why there was a thread discussing it in depth. But the poll presents the question as if the rules really do address the issue...which is why the poll is slanted.


Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Except the poll description of the options are indeed misleading, since the one thing that the thread on this did hammer out very solidly was that the rules simply do not cover first turn cc. We may well have ideas on what *should* happen, but the RAW simply doesnt address anything, since all the RAW choices presume that the vehicles have had a previous turn.

Yes, there are interpretations of what the RAI is, and thats why there was a thread discussing it in depth. But the poll presents the question as if the rules really do address the issue...which is why the poll is slanted.


Sliggoth

The poll isn't meant to convince anyone of one thing or another. It simply asks, "How do you play it." If you play it as an auto-hit, then check it. If not, check something else. This has nothing to do with the RAW or the RAI. This has to do with how someone plays this at their FLGS.

I have to protest that the poll is phrased "How do you play it?" instead of "How would you play it?" Once again, playing Daemons prevents the situation from arising.

But those parenthetical notes by each option do read a lot like editorializing, rather than examples of why someone might chose that option.

A