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This came up in a game last night... can a vehicle pivot after completing a tank shock move?

The rules forbid any turning during a tank shock, but does this prevent a vehicle from pivoting after the forward movement has been completed?

I would say no. Tank shock replaces movement. Pivoting is movement. You therefore can't pivot during your movement if you are unable to move.

Tank shock is the only movement you may make during the movement phase after declaring a tank shock.

No pivoting may be done during a tank shock.

Seems clear enough to me. Answer is no pivoting allowed.

Nitros14 wrote:Tank shock is the only movement you may make during the movement phase after declaring a tank shock.

No pivoting may be done during a tank shock.

Pivoting [generally] doesn't count as movement... and it would be done *after* making the tank shock move, not *during.*

CatPeeler wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:Tank shock is the only movement you may make during the movement phase after declaring a tank shock.

No pivoting may be done during a tank shock.

Pivoting [generally] doesn't count as movement... and it would be done *after* making the tank shock move, not *during.*

Pivoting doesn't count as distance. It's still movement.

I.E. You can pivot in the movement phase and shoot all your weapons in the shooting phase since you moved 0"

You can pivot after moving 12" since your total remains 12"

You cannot pivot after a tank shock because no other movement is allowed.

You cannot pivot in the shooting phase because it's still movement.

No, you cannot pivot after a Tank Shock, since pivoting is movement.

The only vehicle that can do that (IIRC) is a Elfdar Tank with Star Engines.

I see what you're saying, but the only thing that leaves the question unresolved (for me) is that the restriction on other movement explicitly says "during" the tank shock.

If the rule didn't have that word in place, it would be obviously not be legal to pivot, as it would be "no other movement is allowed," period. Instead, it's "no other movement is allowed during the tankshock." It's not "during or after," either.

Obviously, this prevents you from tankshocking around corners or in a curving path, but the "during" bit seems to imply that the straight-line movement is the only part of that vehicle's movement phase subject to the restriction. I.e., you are clearly allowed to pivot before the tankshock, you are clearly not allowed to pivot during... but whether or not you may pivot afterwards isn't addressed at all.

Something just occurred to me which might add another wrinkle--in order to tank shock, a vehicle must move at least combat speed (i.e., 0.000001-6"). If the vehicle's movement phase isn't immediately ended when the tank shock is resolved, this could potentially open the door to another situation: falcon tank shocks 7", moves another 5" (with normal movement restrictions), and then fires a single weapon.

The crux of the argument is exactly how much weight must be given to that single word: "during."

On a related note--if the resolution of the tank shock ends the movement phase (for that vehicle, anyway), would it still be legal to use its smoke launchers?

Once a tank has tank shocked it has moved ... it may not move further that turn since the tank shock replaces the tanks normal movement

... and for ramming ...

Once a tank has Rammed it has moved ... it may not move further that turn since the Ram replaces the tanks normal movement.

Yes you may use smoke launchers as you have just completed the tanks move

I have always read it as Tank Shock "replaces" normal movement. As such that you get no normal movement at all. It does not add to movement it replaces it wholly. So you would not be able to move after or turn after as the entirity of the movement phase has been changed to tank shock. The only reason you get to pivot before is becuase it specifically says to do so.

Melchiour wrote:I have always read it as Tank Shock "replaces" normal movement.

Truth be told, so have I. When this came up, though, I wasn't able to find any rule where it stated this explicitly--i.e., nothing along the lines of, "instead of a normal move, a tank may ram/tankshock/etc."

I believe it says that the player may make a tank shock attack instead of moving normally. Which would thus replace normal movement. Does not say replace but says instead of. This to me reads that the shock replaces the movement completely. If it was in addition it should say something to the effect of "May use part of its movement as a tank shock attack."

CatPeeler wrote:

Melchiour wrote:I have always read it as Tank Shock "replaces" normal movement.

Truth be told, so have I. When this came up, though, I wasn't able to find any rule where it stated this explicitly.

When moving a tank, the player can declare that the vehicle is going to attempt to make a tank shock attack instead of moving normally. This is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through.

Page 68.

That's what I was looking for--thanks!

Holy cow I beat Gwar to a response and was correct. I am going to feint now.

Melchiour wrote:Holy cow I beat Gwar to a response and was correct. I am going to feint now.

*golf clap*

Takes a bow

Also remember that ramming also replaces shooting in your shooting phase.

And star engines lets you move an addition 12" in the shooting phase replacing shooting but must be in a straight line.

Not sure about ramming but tank shock does not replace shooting. As the last bit of the rule states that if the tank moved slowly enough in the shock, it may fire its weapons as normal in shooting phase.

Orion - not true, as ramming simply requires you move as fast as possible.

A landraider with PotMS could happily still shoot, as could the old BT Landraider Crusader...

Page 69:
"This means that it may not shoot in that turn's shooting phase"

kirsanth wrote:Page 69:
"This means that it may not shoot in that turn's shooting phase"

Can we just act like the "0+1=1" style arguments for whether or not PotMS allows shooting when it says that the vehicle can't shoot have already taken place, and not have them this time?

Of course, that was not my intent. I was pointing out that normally Orion is not incorrect.

Orion_44 wrote:And star engines lets you move an addition 12" in the shooting phase replacing shooting but must be in a straight line.

Orion, no.

Star Engines simply allow you to move in the Shooting Phase, nowhere does it say it has to be a Straight Line, nor does it prevent Pivoting.

Pg57: vehicles may pivot as they move. Once the tank shock is over, the vehicles movement is finished, so I would think 'no' on this one.

Once the tank shock is over, the vehicle is in its "final position", which would be incorrect if it were to move again/further.

@ Catpeeler: having been justified by this ruling, I am now sorry I peed in your... well, best not to say anymore.