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So here's the deal. I've got a 3 man Firestorm team and a 2 man Deathrain team at 2000 points. I've got 6 Broadsides in the list, and I've also got a 6 man stealth team. I'm not lacking for anti-vehicle or anti-infantry firepower....

And I need to fill out my Crisis Commander. I'd like to create another 2 man team with him and a bodyguard, but I'm not sure on the loadout to give them.

I could make another transport popper like a second Deathrain team, or the way I'm leaning right now is a close range reaction team with Plasma Rifles and TL Flamers (I'd give the commander an Airburst Fragmentation Launcher.)

I've got about 170 points to throw around. So... what's a good option for a 2 man commander team?

Give the commander the CIB and the AFP. Give the bodyguard PR/FB/Flamers depending on your liking.

The commander alone is typically what I run. Add shield drones and stim injectors. You get a pie plate, and 5 S3 AP4 shots that become AP1 on a to wound of 6.

Get weapons that sync up with the commander at around the 12"-18" range. Or you can go with the Twin flamers for close range support but you risk the pie plate scattering onto yourself (7" max scatter with BS of 5).

IMO, AFP is is a waste on a commander. The AFP is just as good on a Shas'vre. Instead, put the weapons you pay the most for that depend on a good BS. I'd suggest one of the following:

1)Plas, CIB

2)Plas, Miss

3)Plas, Fusion

4)Plas, BC

See a commonality?

I see people struggling with their Tau armies and one of the most common causes is that they are putting the Plasma Rifles onto the Shas'ui.
IMO, Putting Plasma rifles on a shas'ui has to also come with a Targeting Array but at that point your putting $2000 rims on a $400 car. Kit your cheap suits with the Twin-linked MP's and put the points saved into other areas of the army that needs it.

So I'm hurting for points, but your saying concentrate the high powered weaponry on the better BS units, yes? Makes sense.

So my commander (Shas'el) could be something along the lines of:
FB, PR, MT
with a Shas'vre to match? Is the Targetting Array necessary on the 'Vre? I'm hurting for points as is, but sometimes an upgrade is just necessary...

I'm just not seeing a build that uses the AFP with the commander, as his BS is too good, I agree.

tl;dr: Commander and Bodyguard with FB, PR, MT and bodyguard with TA. Good, bad, or passable?

@Pvt.Jet- Just an idea as to the points crunch. Drop the third battlesuit from the first elite choice.

Then following what you're posted for an idea of preffered load out, "How does this sound?".

HQ-Shas'el w/ Plas Rifle, FB, MT, HW TL + Shas'vre w/ Plas, FB, TA, HW MT(Maybe add two sheid drones or not)

Elite 1-2 Shas'ui Deathrains

Elite 2-2 Shas'ui (Deathrains or something else that that doesnt drive the total unit cost over 110 points)

Elite 3-Stealthsuits(Vanilla) but with BK

Add up the points and see where this puts you.


As to your understanding of my suggestions, you're dead on. Still, pls keep in mind that these are suggestions and I'm not a fan of absolutes(Even my own ). If you think of something unusual that you think will work, go for it. That is how successful new builds are made.

Happy Hunting

I always have the AFP on my Commander. Getting pie-plates in the Tau army is a must, and the AFP ignores cover. With the hi BS of the commander you have little scatter on misses.

I have Shas'O with AFP, PR, HWMT, Shield Gen. (People will say to use the 'el with a Targetting array but i have the unfortunate habit of getting into CC with this squad...so ill take the extra wound..its a personal thing i totally see the logic) I also try to use two bodyguards with PR, FB, TA, HWMT--Its an expensive squad but i throw them all over the place....and they kill what they aim for.

Fireknife suits are probably the way to go - Plasma Rifle and missile pod. Plenty of high strength shots.

I keep hearing people using Fireknives but honestly... 6 shots that I have to close to 12" to use (in such an assault slanted atmosphere!) or only 3 up to 24" seems like a poor choice, especially when you consider the average squads BS 3. Even if you up the BS to 4, you aren't going to take out enough of an assault squad before they rip into you... and if you take multiple squads to provide enough hit, you subtract from the other choices in the list.

I honestly prefer the firestorm build. I can stay at 18" away and fire 9 str 5 shots and 6 str 7 shots. No good AP values.... but volume of fire does more for me than any single shot has ever done. Plus, with JSJ nothing but jump infantry with fleet, or a fast transport will be able to assault me on the next turn.

Anywho, on said firestorm build.... what does the crowd think of taking the commander of a three man squad and upping him to a Vre and giving him the AFP? If you're firing at 18", the burst cannons from the other two will allow you to range yourself on using it, and the effect it has fits the squads goal. I'm EXTREMELY tempted by such a build, and I'm wondering if anyone's tried it?

This way my HQ and Elites are now looking like:
Commander and Bodyguard - Helios
6 man Stealth Squad - Leader with markerlight and two marker drones (Aggressive SMT, FANTASTIC squad)
2 Deathrains with flamers
3 Firestorms, 'Vre with AFP, Gun Drone to absorb a lascannon

That puts 35% of my army's points in the HQ and Elites slots, but I think the anti-infantry firepower it generates is well worth the cost. Especially since the list theory is that a single Hammerhead and 6 Broadsides provide all the anti-vehicle I need, and the Hammerhead can also combine with the AFP for some serious pie plates.

My logic sound here?

I run Missile pod, plasma, stim injector, 2 shield drones. Multi tracker. Totally flexible and durable.

Acardia wrote:I run Missile pod, plasma, stim injector, 2 shield drones. Multi tracker. Totally flexible and durable.

Pretty much what I run. Only time it changes is when I'm playing around with different tactics. If it changes then it ends up being the Plas + CIB leading a unit of Plas + BC or Plas + FB through the unit.

Hm. I guess I just don't see the draw of the CIB. I mean, at S3, it's going to have difficulty hitting ANYTHING T4, which includes a fairly decent portion of the armies in 40k. And with only a 1/6 chance of being AP1.... with only 1/3 chance PERIOD to wound a marine successfully, I don't see the draw. A fusion blaster is 3 less points and is nearly 3 times as likely to hit and score that AP1 wound.

Can anyone argue otherwise? Why take a CIB... period? To me a Burst cannon seems almost more effective just because it will force more wounds...

@Pvt.Jet-Your thinking primarily MEQ. The CIB does a number on GEQ and horde while still tagging MEQ on a roll of a 6(With 5 shots it is not unusual). It is better than just a melta or just a flamer when dealing with both unit types in the same game or tournament. Of course you can equip a suit with both melta and flamer...

Now personally, I'm very "Meh" about the CIB. Because it is a "jack of most trades" weapon. to me, it always feels like it under performs. I only use it in specific builds.

think about it this way, 50% of your wounds against MEQs will be AP1! haha

I'm against using bodyguards in command squads. I enjoy lone commanders with shield drones. At 2500 points I would probably use them but under 2000 points I would not just because they are over-costed compared to other crisis suits.

Fireknife is good for being jack of all trades but when it comes down to it other configurations surpass it.

Against Terminators, Helios suits work best.
Hordes Twin Flamers.
Transport Heavy Lists - Deathrains.

There's lots of good advice here. FocusedFire makes some good points.

Hm. I guess I just don't see the draw of the CIB. I mean, at S3, it's going to have difficulty hitting ANYTHING T4, which includes a fairly decent portion of the armies in 40k. And with only a 1/6 chance of being AP1.... with only 1/3 chance PERIOD to wound a marine successfully, I don't see the draw. A fusion blaster is 3 less points and is nearly 3 times as likely to hit and score that AP1 wound.

The CIB is AP4. AP4 deals damage to much more than AP5 does. Upgraded Vets, Stormtroopers, Firewarriors, Genestealers, Termaguants, Hormaguants. Now sure you wound T4 on 5+.

Commander BS5 with CIB
4.17 Shots hit
1.38 Wounds Against T4
2.09 Wounds Against T3
0.69 Wounds Against T5 Auto AP 1
0.69 Wounds Against T6 Auto AP 1

You may get lucky with your rolls. The more dice the better but where the CIB really shines is against T5 and T6 creatures since they get no armor save at all.

Now with a Burst Cannon
Commander BS5 with CIB
2.5 Shots hit
1.67 Wounds Against T4
2.08 Wounds Against T3
1.25 Wounds Against T5 (AP 5)
0.83 Wounds Against T6 (AP 5)

Notice against T5 you have double wounds being done. Most T5 creatures will have a 3+ save or so. This will save 2 out of 3 wounds on average. Suddenly you have to realize that those 1.25 wounds become 0.42 Unsaved wounds compared to the 0.69 wounds of the CIB. T6 only gets worse at 0.27 unsaved wounds versus the 0.69 wounds at AP1 of the CIB.

Add on the AFP and you get a pie plate that is S4 to help take out hordes. Little to no scatter with the BS5. The BS5 shines with the high amount of shots of the CIB ensuring you get as many hits as you can on the trageted unit.

Its simple with me my brother magnatised my commander for my birthday so now i just change weapons acouding to who im playing.