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I just needed to clarify something concerning rapid fire weapons. Even with Death Company, I cannot assault if I shoot the bolters even with relentless? Is this still the same if I single shot and do not rapid fire the bolter?

Just trying to figure out the best way to drop in and assault.

Thank you.

Nightsbane wrote:I just needed to clarify something concerning rapid fire weapons. Even with Death Company, I cannot assault if I shoot the bolters even with relentless? Is this still the same if I single shot and do not rapid fire the bolter?

Just trying to figure out the best way to drop in and assault.

Thank you.

Relentless allows you to move and count as not moving when shooting Heavy or Rapid Fire Weapons. It also allows you to assault after shooting Rapid Fire or Heavy Weapons.

Models who are not relentless cannot move and fire Heavy or Rapid Fire Weapons, no matter how many shots they fired. Also, keep in mind you cannot fire 1 shot with Rapid Fire Weapons at 12" or less, you MUST fire two shots. No choice in the matter!

As for the best way:
9 DC and Rechlusiarch. 3 DC have Bolters and Power Fists, 6 have Pistol and CCW. (Power Weapons if you can afford them) in a Drop Pod.

No Mishap, can be spread out and still shoot, bolters are relentless so can still assault (and don't lose an attack anyway cause of the fist) and reroll to hit and wound when assaulting. Nasty, Nasty unit!

I guess it comes down to armor values then, with AP5 vs. hits on 3+ in CC. You lose an attack either way. It's just chosing to lose it in CC or shooting.

Nightsbane wrote:I guess it comes down to armor values then, with AP5 vs. hits on 3+ in CC. You lose an attack either way. It's just chosing to lose it in CC or shooting.

That's why I only take Bolters on the DC with Power Fists, since they Gain +1 Shot and don't lose an attack, since they lost it with the PF anyway!

Wait,wait,wait, are you implying that the DC can somehow assault out of a Drop Pod, Gwar?

No, just that they CAN assault at some point, and the a bolter on a relentless pwoerfist model is a better choice than a bolt pistol.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Wait,wait,wait, are you implying that the DC can somehow assault out of a Drop Pod, Gwar?

I always knew it would be a turn 2 assault. I just considered a possible bolter, since you can shoot after podding. This would give you a large amount of shots to soften an enemy before the assault.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Wait,wait,wait, are you implying that the DC can somehow assault out of a Drop Pod, Gwar?

No, not at all.

What I am saying is, rather than waste masses of points on Jump Packs (over 150 points for 9 DC and HQ Chappy), take a Drop Pod (Cheap as Chips). That means:
1) Almost no chance of a Mishap.
2) They can Deploy and Spread out and STILL shoot, unlike packs who have to run.
3) The Drop Pod means that it all but negates rage, and ensures they get to something turn 2.
4) It also means that either he shoots at them, and leaves the rest of your army alone, or ignores them and allows them to rip up stuff.
5) The Fists are only there in case they have tanks or MC to take out.

OK just clarifying.

Gwar! wrote:
What I am saying is, rather than waste masses of points on Jump Packs (over 150 points for 9 DC and HQ Chappy), take a Drop Pod (Cheap as Chips). That means:
1) Almost no chance of a Mishap.
2) They can Deploy and Spread out and STILL shoot, unlike packs who have to run.
3) The Drop Pod means that it all but negates rage, and ensures they get to something turn 2.
4) It also means that either he shoots at them, and leaves the rest of your army alone, or ignores them and allows them to rip up stuff.
5) The Fists are only there in case they have tanks or MC to take out.

Hello, Decent of Angels. NEgates most of that list.

Apart fom the points cost, which is huge. You still have a far higher chance of a mishap than in a drop pod.

carmachu wrote:

Gwar! wrote:rather than waste masses of points on Jump Packs

Hello, Descent of Angels. NEgates most of that list.

Gwar listed what you get for over 100 pts less than taking Jump Packs.

carmachu wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
What I am saying is, rather than waste masses of points on Jump Packs (over 150 points for 9 DC and HQ Chappy), take a Drop Pod (Cheap as Chips). That means:
1) Almost no chance of a Mishap.
2) They can Deploy and Spread out and STILL shoot, unlike packs who have to run.
3) The Drop Pod means that it all but negates rage, and ensures they get to something turn 2.
4) It also means that either he shoots at them, and leaves the rest of your army alone, or ignores them and allows them to rip up stuff.
5) The Fists are only there in case they have tanks or MC to take out.

Hello, Decent of Angels. NEgates most of that list.

I didn't think DC had Decent of the Angels? Besides, a drop pod is cheaper, and gives you a guaranteed turn one entry with far less chance for disaster, some cover, and even a little weapons support.

Anything with a jump pack in a BA army gets DoA.

Valhallan42nd wrote:Anything with a jump pack in a BA army gets DoA.

This has to be the most brought up point/question for the Blood Angels.

Yes, they have DoA. However, models with DoA still can mishap, cannot spread out and shoot at the same time, the Jump Packs cost over 150 points instead of 35 (or 45) for a pod and also (most importantly) cannot come in on turn one and have only a 75% chance of a Turn 2 arrival.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Apart fom the points cost, which is huge. You still have a far higher chance of a mishap than in a drop pod.

Far higher is a bit much. You have a slightly better chance of mishap- d6" is alot better then 2d6"

carmachu wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Apart fom the points cost, which is huge. You still have a far higher chance of a mishap than in a drop pod.

Far higher is a bit much. You have a slightly better chance of mishap- d6" is alot better then 2d6"

Yes, but the problem is that Death Company will be podding in Turn 1 into the enemies deployment zone. That's a LOT of enemies to mishap on if you want to get into a good Position.

And when the unit is costing 400+ points WITHOUT Jump packs, paying the negligible cost of a drop pod to Guarantee it gets there is the best solution.
Not to mention: Plasma Cannons :(

Inertial guidance system is greater than descent of angels.

Cheaper too.

And as Gwar! stated:

You can spread out and shoot.

Alot less chance of mishap.

Turn 1, not reserves roll.

Gwar! wrote:SNIP

Models who are not relentless cannot fire after firing Heavy or Rapid Fire Weapons, no matter how many shots they fired. Also, keep in mind you cannot fire 1 shot with Rapid Fire Weapons at 12" or less, you MUST fire two shots. No choice in the matter!

SNIP

So... Relentless units can shoot after shooting, that is nasty!

Homer

Lies, Lies and Slander I say!

carmachu - far higher is EXACTLY right. If you place the Droppod in a non-mishap position, it can ONLY mishap by going off the board. Not true of DoA JI models.

Gwar! wrote:
1) Almost no chance of a Mishap.
2) They can Deploy and Spread out and STILL shoot, unlike packs who have to run.
3) The Drop Pod means that it all but negates rage, and ensures they get to something turn 2.
4) It also means that either he shoots at them, and leaves the rest of your army alone, or ignores them and allows them to rip up stuff.
5) The Fists are only there in case they have tanks or MC to take out.

Gwar!

Can you explain to me how they can drop in, and then move and still shoot? I was under the impression that when you came in from a drop pod the contents counted as moving and could only run or shoot. I don't see how being relentless would matter in this case unless you were talking about moving on the turn after they came in.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Thanks

They dont move, it is just their disemabrk can be from any point within 2" of the hull - so they can cluster one side, spread themselves thin, etc.

Deepstrikers HAVE to be in a circle and therefore MUST run if they want to spread out.

I was indeed talking about the turn after, they can move, shoot bolters and still assaults.

What I mean by Spread out and still shoot is that when you deploy from a Pod, you deploy like disembarking from a vehicle, so you can spread yourself out 2" apart to avoid being plasmacannoned to death AND still get some bolter shots off.

Models arriving by Normal Deep Strike have to bunch up, and the only way to not be plasma/battle/somesortofcannoned to death is to run, which means you can't shoot, and even then you might roll a 1!

Ah ok thanks for the reply.