How do you engage a Thunderfire cannon?

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**Ouze**

OK, I just spent nearly half an hour reading the codex and the rulebook, and then repeating such. How do you attack a TFC? I don't see a profile for it anywhere. Does it have F/S/R? I know the techmarine can outlive the TFC, so it must have it's own profile somewhere, right?

**KingCracker**

Isnt it artillery? If so it should be 10s all around and *penetrates on glances*

(Ok my wording was a bit wrong but either way people, read pg55 as stated lol)

**Ouze**

It's artillery, yes. Where are you getting that stat from? I can't find it in writing anywhere, not even the INAT.

Nevermind - main rulebook, p55.

Thank you!

**KingCracker**

Well the stats for the gun should be in the appropriate codex. And I was going to give you the page for artillery rules but you found it lol

**insaniak**

Note though that you don't actually attack the TFC in close combat... only the crew. (Page 55, Assaults)

**Ouze**

KingCracker wrote:Well the stats for the gun should be in the appropriate codex. And I was going to give you the page for artillery rules but you found it lol

"Should be" being the operative phrase. In hindsight, the fact that it was an Artillery unit clearly should have indicated that there is a rulebook section for artillery, but there is absolutely no mention on the codex page for the TFC of it's profile. For comparison, the Ork Big Gunz section explicitly indicates they are 10 FSR, so the TFC one really should too.

**KingCracker**

Yea I agree, but you end up finding the rules somewhere in the book. Example the first time my wife played deepstriking, Iwas fairly sure I knew how to use the rule, but wanted to be 100%, and it took me forever to find where it was in the rule book. Youd think something as common as deep striking would be listed but its not lol

**insaniak**

It's not really necessary to include it in the codex, since it's standard for all artillery.

**Ouze**

Ah, but here is a problem.

The Big Gunz entry gives them a ballistic skill value. Since the Big Gunz are crewed by Grots, and they are BS3, it's a fair assumption the Big Gunz are simply using the Grot's BS, and that the TFC also uses the Techmarines BS, but that is of course, just an assumption.

**KingCracker**

I agree pondering cat, but for someone that doesnt know it can be a bit frustrating figuring it out.

**insaniak**

Ouze wrote:Ah, but here is a problem.

The Big Gunz entry gives them a ballistic skill value. Since the Big Gunz are crewed by Grots, and they are BS3, it's a fair assumption the Big Gunz are simply using the Grot's BS, and that the TFC also uses the Techmarines BS, but that is of course, just an assumption.

Sorry, I think you lost me there. What's the problem?

We don't need to assume that the TFC uses the Techmarine's BS, because the TFC doesn't act as an independant entity. It is fired by the Techmarine, so uses his BS just as like any other weapon he would be firing.

**Ouze**

The fact they specifically gave the Big Gunz a profile that includes a BS rating, independent of the grot crew, implies that the Big Gunz have their own ballistic skill which is independent of the gretchin and that it's coincidental that both the Big Gunz and the Grots have the same BS. If you use that as a precedent that artillery has it's own BS, then the TFC should also have a BS rating. They should delete the profile listed for Big Gunz (BS3, 10 FSR), or add one to the rest of the artillery pieces - ideally the latter. IMO, anyway.

**nosferatu1001**

Except it does not add precedent, as the rules for artiullery tell you they fire using the crew...

The Ork book was written before the rules for artillery were as neat as they are now.

**Ouze**

So, perhaps they will clean it up in the Orks 5e, if that ever happens.

Thanks, all.

**ChocolateGork**

The ridiculous artillery rules is why a basilisk is now a tank

**insaniak**

Ouze wrote: If you use that as a precedent that artillery has it's own BS, then the TFC should also have a BS rating.

That's where you lost me. Why would the Big Gunz profile set a precedent for anyone else?

The TFC does not have a BS stat of its own. All the Big Gunz profile does is add another questionable bit of rules writing into a codex that is notoriously riddled with it.

Artillery should not have a BS listed in its profile, because it uses the BS of whoever is firing it... which is not always the original crew.

**Ouze**

No, I agree with you - it should be removed from the Big Gunz section.

insaniak wrote: Artillery should not have a BS listed in its profile, because it uses the BS of whoever is firing it... which is not always the original crew.

Wait, how does that last part happen? (I'm at work and don't have my RB)

**Gwar!**

Ouze wrote:Wait, how does that last part happen? (I'm at work and don't have my RB)

Oddly enough, it's in the rulebook. In the artillery rules. Have a read next time you can!

**Space_Potato**

Just remember that the Ork codex was written pre-5th ed.

So some of the more minor rules are a little shaky. Not completely borked, but a bit iffy occasionally.

S_P