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Hi,

does the Demonic Gift: "Breath of Chaos" from Codex: Chaos Deamons negate Feel no Pain?

It says: "any model under the template suffer one wound on a D6 roll of 4+, with no Armour or Cover saves allowed."
Since the Gift has no Strength and AP value, does it negate FnP?

In my oppinion it does, because it never allowes an Armour Save.
My opponent denied that because in his opinion only AP2,AP1, double strength and armour ignoring melee weapons ignore FnP.

I wouldn't think it would negate FNP actually because you could still take an invul save if you had it against that weapon and the only other wounds that negate FNP are wounds that never allow a save of any kind, such as dangerous terrain tests.

Knew I shoulda grabbed my rule book this morning.

Sorry but I don't get the point on Invul Saves?
In the FnP rules it says nothing about them

Emperor's Servant wrote:Sorry but I don't get the point on Invul Saves?
In the FnP rules it says nothing about them

I know, and again I wish I grabbed my book, but I believe the FNP rule states the only other wounds that would negate it are wounds that would never allow a save such as dangerous terrain tests and tank shock.

Eh, I'm sure someone else will chime in with an answer and better explanation.

Emperor's Servant wrote:In my oppinion it does, because it never allowes an Armour Save.
My opponent denied that because in his opinion only AP2,AP1, double strength and armour ignoring melee weapons ignore FnP.

The examples in FNP (rulebook page 75) aren't just melee attacks, there's also Rending (which can be shooting). "Never allows an armor save" is key here. Right you are, Breath disallows FNP.

edit: oh yes, shooting Rending is "only" AP2 these days. But the point is still that it's only examples in the FNP entry - if something states "no armor saves" then FNP doesn't work.

Breath does disallow FNP, as it says that no armour saves may be taken, and the criteria for disallowing FNP are "Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons, and any other wounds against which no armour saves may ever be taken" No mention of Invulnerable Saves, just Armour. Think about it, Inv saves can be taken against things like power weapons, and yet FNP may not be taken against such wounds. A good example would be Plague Bearers being wounded by a power weapon. They get their 5+ Inv sav, and yet not their FNP. So the OP was correct, Breath of Chaos does disallow FNP, the opponent was sadly incorrect.

Another boon for WBB then.

Kevin949 wrote:

Emperor's Servant wrote:Sorry but I don't get the point on Invul Saves?
In the FnP rules it says nothing about them

I know, and again I wish I grabbed my book, but I believe the FNP rule states the only other wounds that would negate it are wounds that would never allow a save such as dangerous terrain tests and tank shock.

Eh, I'm sure someone else will chime in with an answer and better explanation.

The last FNP thread I think you made the same mistake: the only requirement is that the weapon denies ARMOUR saves, not "any2 saves.

As you can take an invulnerable save against DT for example...

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Emperor's Servant wrote:Sorry but I don't get the point on Invul Saves?
In the FnP rules it says nothing about them

I know, and again I wish I grabbed my book, but I believe the FNP rule states the only other wounds that would negate it are wounds that would never allow a save such as dangerous terrain tests and tank shock.

Eh, I'm sure someone else will chime in with an answer and better explanation.

The last FNP thread I think you made the same mistake: the only requirement is that the weapon denies ARMOUR saves, not "any2 saves.

As you can take an invulnerable save against DT for example...

No, the last FNP thread I made the mistake of AP 3 weapons denying or not denying FNP. But by your wording here, you're incorrect (though I know what you mean). It's "any wounds which armor saves could never be taken" not "denies armor saves". If it was "denies armor saves" then any wound with an AP equal to or better than the targets would negate it. Regardless, Not sure what I was thinking here, but it was answered already so no harm done. *Shrug* It made sense in my head, but I'm also at work and extremely tired so I'm probably not thinking straight. Hey, at least i admitted I was probably wrong.

Kevin949 wrote:Another boon for WBB then.

????? Didn't think any Necron units could have FNP...?

They don't get FNP, but this is just another reason that WBB is better than FNP because in this instance the necrons would still get WBB.

So, in summary:
FnP: Not vs Breath.
WBB: Yes vs Breath.

Thanks for the replies =)