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I see them in 75% of the lists out there but they don't strike me as anything special as they don't even count as scoring. I like the unit but don't see the part that makes them killer. Can someone shed some light please? thanks!

Also are nob bikers still competitive? I have been out of the game for a while and don't have the net at my place to cruise around for info like I used to be able to do :(

Kommandos are good, especially with Snikrot, because they can outflank to your opponents rear and take out any pesky heavy support units that are pounding your boyz(LRBTs, Basilisks, Whirlwinds, Devestator squads, Broadsides, Hammerheads......)


diversified Nob Bikers are the toughest unit to kill in the game(except possably BA TH/SS terminators with FNP) they are very much so still competitive.

they can be troops as well which makes their High pts cost a little less probmatic.

Snikrot's Ambush is *not* Outflank; it is simply "enter from Reserve from your Table Edge of Choice." It is conferred by *him* to his unit, rather than the unit itself having it. So depending on your ability to argue against TOs, and ability to take a punch to the face, Snikrot acts as a delivery tool to get Grotsnik or Ghazgkull behind enemy lines.

Also, Jetseers are harder than Nob Bikers too. And Nob Bikers don't like mass Strength 8 at all. I'd argue a smallish unit as an escort for Wazzdakka or a Biker Boss helps, or as a specialist unit for dealing with that *one* unit that needs to be dealt with now, but taking too many leads to an imbalanced army that'll slay some lists but has way too many hard counters.

Wait....snikrot can get ghaz behind enemy lines?

I had cut kommandoes from my list...and lootas..to add meganobz/battlewagon for ghaz.

I need to work on my ability to take a fist to the face.

MagicJuggler wrote:Snikrot's Ambush is *not* Outflank; it is simply "enter from Reserve from your Table Edge of Choice." It is conferred by *him* to his unit, rather than the unit itself having it. So depending on your ability to argue against TOs, and ability to take a punch to the face, Snikrot acts as a delivery tool to get Grotsnik or Ghazgkull behind enemy lines.

Also, Jetseers are harder than Nob Bikers too. And Nob Bikers don't like mass Strength 8 at all. I'd argue a smallish unit as an escort for Wazzdakka or a Biker Boss helps, or as a specialist unit for dealing with that *one* unit that needs to be dealt with now, but taking too many leads to an imbalanced army that'll slay some lists but has way too many hard counters.

Why should you have to argue against TOs and get punched in the face just to use a unit's special ability? Rules is rules...

Because Ramming was a form of Tank Shock. Therefore it was not a Tank Shock.

Yeah, anything with S8 pie plates will kill the nobs through sheer luck and instakill hits. They're still hard as hell, but they have a distinct counter that hurts them a lot, bit if you don't have said counter, they can be VERY difficult.

INAT FAQ says an IC can go with Kommandoes with Snikrot (and I agree, as it makes sense from both a RaW and a fluff standpoint) but, as always, ask your opponent first.

Assault Terminators are another counter (wins by Combat resolution though the unit will be hurting afterwards), as are Hive Guard. Space Wolf armies have a *LOT* of S8 shooting too.

Kommandos are good because they eliminate pressure on your forward boyz, as already said. Even if they die, if they can lock up one of your opponent's better shooty units for a turn, that gets all your other models that much closer.

As for what's the hardest unit to kill - kinda depends on what you're trying to kill them with. Nob bikers are up there. Diversified Blood Crushers with Fateweaver support are probably better than them because of eternal warrior, and also better than jetlocks with farseer support. (if you can include the farseer with the jetlocks for this question, you can include fateweaver with the crushers too).

Yes the Ghaz trick. MANY people hate the idea as its just so over powered. Kind of hits that "how bad do you have to win" nerve. I personally would never do it, its outrageous IMO but honestly what can you do, it really is worded in such a way that you can do that.

It's kind of a gamble though. I know if I ever did it, Snikrot&Ghaz wouldn't show up until turn 4 or 5.

This is just a guess , but even if they dont kill anything , aslong as they are in combat
they could tie up some gun line units with potentially powerful guns.

Leaving the rest of the Ork army safe.

If units in CC can block LOS ( cant remember too well ) then you pretty much get free terrain to hide behind with lol

Another reason kommandos are so good is thet they can take burnas, which can count as power weapons. A squad of burna boys is an easy target, but a squad of kommandos that can come in from any board edge, burn up thee baddies one turn, then slash them up the next is amazing. Kommandos are also a cheap unit that can take out armor and are very fun to play.

B.D.

KingCracker wrote:Yes the Ghaz trick. MANY people hate the idea as its just so over powered. Kind of hits that "how bad do you have to win" nerve. I personally would never do it, its outrageous IMO but honestly what can you do, it really is worded in such a way that you can do that.

Why do you consider it to be an "instant win" button... when it's obviously not?

It's a neat trick, but still potentially increases the amount of time it takes Ghazkull to get into the fight.

If it were really as broken as you are implying, then it would be the #1 tournament build.

Yeah, its not that great, but how cool is it to have the big guy come in where he wants to, and even maybe put mad doc on it for some FNP action.

With ghaz, FNP, full squad with 2x burnas, and snik going at it, its a very expensive, but fun distraction.

I say just go for it, orks aren't exactly the most balanced and good codex there is right now. They have to resort to extreme measures to hold up against the more recent books. It is a high risk high reward army. Since you can't really out play a good general with a good list, you need to give your guys the best chance at being lucky.

Because they're Orks. And also Kommandos, with a fething Kapital K. I mean come on, how hard is that to understand?

I did it during the first two games of Ard boyz semi's and it worked wonderful...not a single person there was aware that you could do that so while I came in second to last I surpirsed the hell out of everyone with my Army Strategy!

Are they not a wee bit fragile though?

LD7, with a maximum squad size of 15, 6+ save

Granted you can take more special weapons than a sqaud of boyz, but its still only (for example) 2 power weapons/burnas in a squad of 5.

I can see them getting krumped as soon as they arrive

The idea, is 6" movement from edge, 1-6" Waaagh, 6" charge.

Suddenly you're threatening 13-18" from any board edge of your choice. You bury yourself in combat as soon as you arrive.

While it may be neat to deliver Ghaz through the back hatch like that, it seems like a waste.
One would think he'd be better delivered alongside soemthing tough, like wound shenanigan Nobz. Isn't Ghaz himself Slow and Purposeful? He'd slow down the Kommandos, potentially borking your surprise entrance, and leaving you high and dry.

I have had the Ghaz trick played on me twice and both times seemed pretty silly. In my experience the Kommandos are going to take out the one unit that they target with or without Ghaz and then die horribly.

Even with Grotsnik, all the models get is the 4+ (or 5+inv followed by 4+) and isn't that big a deal against many builds.

Both times the unit arrived, in one instance killed a wave serpent with dragons in it in assault and 6 of them survived, in the second instance they obliterated a unit of warwalkers.

I then killed all the Kommandos with Dire Avengers and had Ghaz/Grotsnik all by themselves to feel my ap1 and 2 weapons unitl dead.

Ghaz is always better in a unit that is harder to kill than kommandos.

In my Ork army I always take them to free up a turn of heavy shooting against my 150 boyz running forward and remove that one, or two have to stop these units from the board (If I can pull off the multiple assault).

Why is it even a "trick?"

You guys realize that during your deployment you are required to say "this unit is in reserves with these independent characters attached."

If you're following the rules, it's never a surprise.

What makes ork kommandos so good?

Bad deployment, usually.

I'm not sure what lists you're seeing; Kommandos aren't that popular and I haven't seen too many lists with them that I take all that seriously. Snikrot + Ghaz is a nice trick, but as stated, it is reliant on reserve rolls and against some armies, completely useless. But it does help orks against the gunline armies that linger in the back by setting Ghaz, Snikrot, and some burnas against some high value targets, so it's pretty nasty at times.

While the Snikrot trick is fun, you have to realize that Snikrot's unit is only ever going to kill one target, so make it important. After you sneak onto the table and kill one unit (tank, gunline, whatever) your opponent is going to wipe that threat off the table. Putting Grotsnik in the unit is amusing, but makes for an extremely expensive unit; 470 or so for a full unit, 695 if you stick Ghaz in there.

I like the idea of sneaking a Warbiker Boss onto the table and splitting from Snikrot's unit as soon as he comes into play. Two, even, and then you can simultaneously assault three units at the same time. Or put Ghaz and a Warbiker, assault three units with the free 6" fleet run... Just a thought.

Also, I think Grotsnik is more fun with a full unit of Cybork'd Burnas.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:you have to realize that Snikrot's unit is only ever going to kill one target, so make it important. After you sneak onto the table and kill one unit (tank, gunline, whatever) your opponent is going to wipe that threat off the table.

If you're playing intelligently, you've already used your lootas to pop one of his transports. When Snikrot and friends come on, make sure to multi-charge. Since you come on wherever, barring some VERY intelligent deployment (keep in mind you have 6" + 6" waaagh [with thraka] + 6" assault-- that's 18" from any table edge), you should be able to position yourself such that you contact at least two units. Use your positioning to make sure you don't overwhelm your opponent in the first round, and ideally you can be locked during his turn and finish the combat then.

I like the idea of sneaking a Warbiker Boss onto the table and splitting from Snikrot's unit as soon as he comes into play. Two, even, and then you can simultaneously assault three units at the same time. Or put Ghaz and a Warbiker, assault three units with the free 6" fleet run... Just a thought.

Also, I think Grotsnik is more fun with a full unit of Cybork'd Burnas.

I'll need to check the GW FAQ, but INAT's ruling seems to indicate that GW has expressly forbidden an IC splitting off the turn it comes in like that.

Ghazkull ambushing w/ Snikrot?

RAW may allow it, but anyone with half an ounce of common sense can deduce that that was not the intent.

IF you wanna do it , go for it I guess, just don't pretend it isn't a loophole...

If your local scene has many Tau, I.G., Sisters players then snikrot will give them a royal pain in the head. He punishes gunlines and stand-off armies. However, if you find yourself playing alot of MEQ players he might not contribute consistently. As others have said, after his initial appearance he is not very survivable. He also needs to work in conjunction with other units. When faced with snikrot a player might give you first turn and reserve their army. Now snikrot has a 50% chance of coming in at the top of turn 2 with nothing to assault. However, if you've got battlewagons as well that's great because your wagons just got two turns of unmolested movement.

Snikrot's mian ability is to screw with your opponets head. Point for point he and his unit will almost never earn there poitns back (unless your opponet is an idiot in his deployment phase) but he can force bad deployments and even movement towards your oncoming orks.

I think the idea of Snikrot is scary, in game play he's o-so. But people are terrified about his ability so taking him with 5 kommandos is usually enought to get gunlines/tnaks away from the table edge.

I've never tried the mad doc with a full unit of Kommandos - that might work. 15pt kommandos isn't unreasonable when you realize they have 4 attacks on the charge, furious charge, FNP, and 5++ - and the ability to come from any table edge. Oh, and fearless.
This build might actually last for a while in the back lines, it could be killed but a lot of resources would have to be directed at it - freeign up the rest of your force from shooting.

I checked the INAT for orks and it clearly states that independent characters may NOT join with snikrots unit to ambush. Ghaz, Mad Doc, bikerboss, etc. cannot join.