new termie libby, speeder. MotRW.

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**Mannahnin**

I really like the termie Librarian. The shoulder book is too big, but the would fit right into my army.

The MotRW looks cool, though I need to see some more shots from different angles.

Ravenwing Speeder is cool enough- I already have similar DA icons from the old MotRW speeder. The nice thing about the plastic AC will just be that the model balances better.

**honsou3**

the images don't work

**Atma01**

Someone PLEASE re-post the pics if you have them.

**Banesword**

visit the warseer rumour roundup for pics:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47020

**Atma01**

Netblock.

**2.0**

I can't believe so many people don't like the backbook, thats one of my favorite parts. Space Marines have always been about over the top iconography (word?) and that fits the librarian sooo good. Actually, seeing him now makes me want to start that Blood Ravens army I thought of as they are a librarian heavy/knowledge seeking chapter.

**Drake_Marcus**

Posted By Hellfury on 12/16/2006 6:45 PM
Actually Drake, they just assumed it was for the termies. No one said that there was a termie arm attached to it.

If you think about it, if DW are only getting one heavy weapon per squad, why in the world would they give two assault cannons? Besides having DA iconography on it, of course.

No, I am certain that this is the mythological second assault cannon rumour.

Darn, well I hate to pull out the big guns but here's a direct quote from Brimstone:

- Ravenwing plastic sprues – said to contain conversion parts similar to the current Ravenwing bikers and other parts to customise the Land Speeder.

- Plastic conversion parts to replace the current metal Typhoon & Tornado hybrid kits.

- Dark Angels sprue/s said contain terminator parts including a new power sword and additional assault cannon, robed bodies (complete bodies minus the chest plate), alternate chest plates, shoulder pads, bolters and other parts you normally find on chapter specific accessory sprues.

Emphesis mine. Look at the specific commas on in the first sentence of the last paragraph.

Also note that the plastic assault cannon we see there is a single assault cannon, not the twin-linked one that we expect to see with the MotRW, so I hardly see why they'd include the ravenwing sprue in the new speeder box for use as a generic marine speeder. If anything the assault cannon could be a dual one for him, if in fact it isn't a termie cannon. They'll be retiring the ravenwing and dark angels sprues just as they did with the templar sprues to make space on the shelf (eventually). My money says the new generic speeder box with a new sprue that with parts for either speeder variant.

Here's another quote from Brimstone:

Miniature Information
Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets). Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies.
New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder)
New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon.

Again, note the seperate entries for the three sprue types.

And as to why they'd include the extra termie assault cannon on the generic DA sprue with the extra termie parts? Well the BT tactical squad came with a regular command sprue that had a missile launcher and all three special weapons AND a BT sprue that had the missile launcher and specials repeated but with a few templar icons stuck on. Silly? Maybe, but I'm glad I had some extra weapons that I could convert to regular marine weapons with a few swipes of a needle file.

**insaniak**

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 12/17/2006 2:43 PM
AND a BT sprue that had the missile launcher and specials repeated but with a few templar icons stuck on.

Actually, it didn't have the missile launcher. Just BT-stickered special weapons.

**nyarlathotep667**

Here are the images rehosted on imageshack:

**nyarlathotep667**

My comments on the above: I really don't like the librarian either. It's not the book on his head so much as the excessive thickness of all the details, including the book on his head as well as the one on his shoulder pads, the robe as well as the head being located midway down his chest. Termies have always been the most Liefeld-esque of GW's sculpts but this one particularly suffers from terrible anatomy. The tacked on look of huge details makes these kits look more like manufactured conversions than the elegant figures of past that said conversions are based on.

As to the jet bike, I'll withhold comment until I see more pics. It's promising, but there are plenty of the excessively thick details I mentioned before, along with the over the top nature of the rider. Finally, the Tornado looks pretty good, I'm just wondering how much comes on that sprue and how much more it will make that already overpriced kit cost.

**Atma01**

I find the Librarian quite acceptable. The book on the banner is a bit much but that can just be removed. The Jedi pose might be a bit much though. And where the hell is his SB? Still compared to those other abominations he the frikkin Mona Lisa.

As for the MotRW I like him. His model screams SPEED. He really need a Retinue on Jetbikes though.

**Phryxis**

Termies have always been the most Liefeld-esque of GW's sculpts but this one particularly suffers from terrible anatomy.

Suits of powered armor don't have anatomies. It'd be one thing if he was wearing a spandex jumpsuit and his head was in his chest. Then I'd agree with you. But this guy is in a suit of armor. It's bulky in places, less so in others. I think it looks like a normally proportioned (or Space Marine proportioned) form can fit in the armor. Maybe the head is a bit low, but I think it could work. Clearly the armor itself isn't proportioned like a human, but I think that adds to the Terminator-ish look of it. Huge, neckless hulk of a form.

I think the model is very good. The books are a bit chunky, and I'm not sure I like the "lots of books" theme for Librarians. Yes, librarian implies books, but in 40K it's more about psychic powers than reading material. This model demonstrates what's wrong with some of the other new Librarians though... The hood needs to be prominent and noticeable. That, to me, is what makes a Librarian.

**Death_Wing**

Cut off that book banner thing and you have one awesome looking model. As for the Master of the Ravenwing.... A bit too much in my opinion, there's just way too much happening. In the sense that it looks way to clustered to the point that the model seems overburdened, or at least to much to fly.

**nyarlathotep667**

Posted By Phryxis on 12/17/2006 3:59 PM
Suits of powered armor don't have anatomies. It'd be one thing if he was wearing a spandex jumpsuit and his head was in his chest. Then I'd agree with you. But this guy is in a suit of armor. It's bulky in places, less so in others. I think it looks like a normally proportioned (or Space Marine proportioned) form can fit in the armor. Maybe the head is a bit low, but I think it could work. Clearly the armor itself isn't proportioned like a human, but I think that adds to the Terminator-ish look of it. Huge, neckless hulk of a form.

Space Marines are bio-genetically engineered superhumans and therefore have the same proportions (and anatomical variances) as humans. Sure, more muscular, thicker bones, but the proportions still remain relatively the same, regardless of spandex, power armor or a Terminator suit. Heck, anatomically, even marines in Power Armor don't work, but they manage to sell the illusion that they will very well by using human proportions. The terminators push this even further, and this is an example of where the illusion breaks down with the figure's "head in chest" syndrome.

This doesn't even begin to touch the general issues with "Heroic" scaling, particularly GW's extra exaggerated version of it. But I will say that in comparison to the power armored atrocities, the terminator librarian certainly looks quite good, but then again a Ford looks good next to a Yugo, but that doesn't make it a Porsche.

**Drake_Marcus**

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 12/17/2006 3:16 PM
My comments on the above: I really don't like the librarian either. It's not the book on his head so much as the excessive thickness of all the details, including the book on his head as well as the one on his shoulder pads, the robe as well as the head being located midway down his chest. Termies have always been the most Liefeld-esque of GW's sculpts but this one particularly suffers from terrible anatomy. The tacked on look of huge details makes these kits look more like manufactured conversions than the elegant figures of past that said conversions are based on.

THANK YOU. I'm glad someone agrees with me. The termie chapy on the other hand was sweet

**Hellfury**

Posted By Drake_Marcus on 12/17/2006 2:43 PM

Posted By Hellfury on 12/16/2006 6:45 PM
Actually Drake, they just assumed it was for the termies. No one said that there was a termie arm attached to it.

If you think about it, if DW are only getting one heavy weapon per squad, why in the world would they give two assault cannons? Besides having DA iconography on it, of course.

No, I am certain that this is the mythological second assault cannon rumour.
Darn, well I hate to pull out the big guns but here's a direct quote from Brimstone:

- Ravenwing plastic sprues – said to contain conversion parts similar to the current Ravenwing bikers and other parts to customise the Land Speeder.

- Plastic conversion parts to replace the current metal Typhoon & Tornado hybrid kits.

- Dark Angels sprue/s said contain terminator parts including a new power sword and additional assault cannon, robed bodies (complete bodies minus the chest plate), alternate chest plates, shoulder pads, bolters and other parts you normally find on chapter specific accessory sprues.

Emphesis mine. Look at the specific commas on in the first sentence of the last paragraph.

Also note that the plastic assault cannon we see there is a single assault cannon, not the twin-linked one that we expect to see with the MotRW, so I hardly see why they'd include the ravenwing sprue in the new speeder box for use as a generic marine speeder. If anything the assault cannon could be a dual one for him, if in fact it isn't a termie cannon. They'll be retiring the ravenwing and dark angels sprues just as they did with the templar sprues to make space on the shelf (eventually). My money says the new generic speeder box with a new sprue that with parts for either speeder variant.

Here's another quote from Brimstone:

Miniature Information

Dark Angels upgrade sprue (similar to the Black Templars one but of better quality), icons for vehicle upgrades (no separate door sets). Including Deathwing parts and robed bodies.

New Ravenwing sprue (including parts for the MotRW landspeeder)

New Land Speeder sprue including parts for Tornado and Typhoon.

Again, note the seperate entries for the three sprue types.

And as to why they'd include the extra termie assault cannon on the generic DA sprue with the extra termie parts? Well the BT tactical squad came with a regular command sprue that had a missile launcher and all three special weapons AND a BT sprue that had the missile launcher and specials repeated but with a few templar icons stuck on. Silly? Maybe, but I'm glad I had some extra weapons that I could convert to regular marine weapons with a few swipes of a needle file.

Oh jesus christ. Drake. Its a facking dollie plane for christ sakes.

Have you seen the sprue?
My opinion is just a valid as yours. Of all the pedantic things to argue about....Jesus H Christ on a roman facking hurst stick. This is really dumb. You win drake, just because I dont want to pour over that long post and sit here and argue about something as trite as that. Yep, you win! *rolleyes*

**Jester**

tl;dr.

**Hellfury**

K.I.S.S.

**Jester**

Not with that mouth.

**malfred**

Geez. I must have been logged off the Internet when people started typing that.

**Drake_Marcus**

Posted By Hellfury on 12/17/2006 7:18 PM
Have you seen the sprue?
My opinion is just a valid as yours. Of all the pedantic things to argue about.... This is really dumb. You win drake, just because I dont want to pour over that long post and sit here and argue about something as trite as that. Yep, you win! *rolleyes*

Hey- I was bored and wanted to back my original post up. I'm not taking it any more seriously they you apparently were.

So I posted a long response to back up my original point... who cares? How does it make my intent to be to invalidate your point? I was simply backing my own argument up. And frankly nothing we post about here is all that important, but it sure as hell beats doing work.

**Mannahnin**

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 12/17/2006 3:16 PM
My comments on the above: I really don't like the librarian either. It's not the book on his head so much as the excessive thickness of all the details, including the book on his head as well as the one on his shoulder pads, the robe as well as the head being located midway down his chest. Termies have always been the most Liefeld-esque of GW's sculpts but this one particularly suffers from terrible anatomy. The tacked on look of huge details makes these kits look more like manufactured conversions than the elegant figures of past that said conversions are based on.

I generally agree re: the chunky details, but it’s still a nice-looking model. I actually don’t mind the back banner book; it’s the one on the shoulder pad which bothers me. That book would get wrecked just from the motion of the arm.

I agree that the anatomy is off, but both his and that of the plastic termies is an improvement on the old metal hunchbacks with their faces in their chests.

**Gundammecha**

I can't see any of the pics. Anyone else having the same problem?

Do we have links?

Cheers

**blue loki**

Reread the *whole* thread and you'll see 'em.

**syr8766**

C'mon, hug up bizatches. It's all good.

Dollie planes. Heh.

**malfred**

Did somebody mention a real dollie?

[IMAGE CENSORED BY THE FAMILY =I=]

**CaptKaruthors**

Yeah.. I like those models. My be a DA is in my future.

Capt K

**beef**

i like the jet bike,

**Jester**

Posted By beef on 12/19/2006 8:15 AM
i like the jet bike,

And?

Oh, wait, its Beef.

**nyarlathotep667**

Beef aka Kultofthebonedragon aka incapable of posting anything coherent. He's the forum mouth breather!