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Yeah, I'm with you there. Not only are things not always in stock, my FLAGS gaming hours/schule sucks. No way will I bother there.

Just a peice of advice to any store owners here:

Don't berate your customers FOR NEARLY AN HOUR about them buying something on Ebay, or any online company.

At the store near where I used to live, I was talking to the store owner about what I was planning for my Tau army, and I made the mistake of mentioning some Tau I got off ebay. I got my ear talked off about how people buying online was putting stores like his out of buisness, and why should he let people play in his store if we weren't going to buy from him, and blah blah blah. (The only reason I didn't leave was because my ride wasn't there yet)

I try to support local stores, and I had just bought some stuff from his store, actually. But when I can get a Devilfish, 20 Firewarriors, and 6 Pathfinders, for about $40 including shipping, it's a no-brainer. He actually tried to convince me to buy from him by showing me how much it would have cost me to get that stuff from him. (It worked out to about a $60 dollar difference, even with him giving me a discount)

But that sort of thing is a one time deal. If I need a blister, brushes, paint, etc, I'm going to go to a local store. (Not that one anymore though.)

Maybe a store owner can chime in on this, but why don't they all sell GW stuff at a 20% discount all the time?  Seems like the increase in traffic would more than make up for it.

This is an actual question; I don't really know the logistics.

It probably has a lot to do with moving product. At an FLGS, you might have 20 customers/day, while an e-tailer might get 50+ customers/day. A larger volume of buyers means you can seel your goods at a lower price and quantity will make up the difference.

A B&M store just does not have enough potential customers to try and offer the same discounts that a major e-store can. To use the war store as an example, at one time this store was the largest trade account in the Eastern District.

Lets say the war store moves $100,000 (retail) per month. Out of the 100K, 65K goes to pay for product, 20K is the discount givent to the customers, leaving 15K for expenses. Give it a ball park 10K for rent, utilities and salaries: that leaves 5K profit per month for the owner to eat, pay morgage, pay off company debt, ect....

A B&M store sells $10,000 retail per month. Of the $10K, $6.5K pays for stock, $2K discount to customers, $2.5K for over head, leaving... -$1K loss on opperations.

Lets try the numbers without the discount:
$8K in retail sales: $5.2K for stock, $2.5K over head = $300 profit for owners. Not much, but at least it's in the black. And the owner has the opportunity to make a profit on other product lines, now that fixed over head is paid for.

Gracias!  Seeing the numbers really helps me out.

Posted By Iorek on 02/07/2007 6:33 AM
Maybe a store owner can chime in on this, but why don't they all sell GW stuff at a 20% discount all the time?  Seems like the increase in traffic would more than make up for it.

This is an actual question; I don't really know the logistics.

It would take a long time to go into all the info behind why many stores don't discount, it's an often discussed topic on retailers boards, and usually distills down to "discount and go out of business".

For an online discounter, they are pulling from the entire world. The FLGS is pulling from 10 to 20 miles in radius. A purely online business model also has 1/10th the rent, 1/3 the utilities, and can operate when they need to, just enough hours to fill orders. Your local FLGS has to pay a much higher rent, utilities, and labor costs, to be open whenever the customer wants to come in and shop.

A FLGS can't match the discount of an online store, they have higher costs. A good LGS competes with online discounters by being open, stocking what a customer needs, talking to you when you're in, and providing a place for you to game.

Many, many, FLGS have gone out of business in the last 5 years, and more are going down each year. Game stores don't make a large profit. Nearly any other job will get you more money for less hours of work. The line between profitable and out of business is pretty thin right now. The amount of profit for most stores is less than 10%, usually around 3 to 5%. Giving a 10% discount will put most stores out of business, unless that discount brings in 20% more in sales, each and every month.

More on this later maybe, dinner on the table.

Mike at Showcase

Posted By beefHeart on 02/01/2007 6:40 AM
and their site shows you stock status in the cart.

I've never understood why more online retailers don't do this. Sure, it can be a little harder to set up, but from a customer's point of view, there's nothing more frustrating than trolling through a store sorting out your order, submitting it, and then getting an email back telling you that half of what you ordered is out of stock.

ok heres the deal with selling gw products online as was told to me by the gw rep himself

1. doing it violates some new fangled policy they started enforcing in 2002-2003

2. if they find you having a shopping cart and pictures of their product and you have an account with them then bang they close it and wont sell to you

3.Stores that do this very thing do not have actual gw accounts they buy from a distributor and pay 5% more for their product on average... but the return is you can advertise whatever you want unilt you get a cease and decist letter in the mail

4. losing out on early releases from gw for some things ie advanced copies of the dark angel codex and some sample sprues isnt worth the risk of losing my account

 

and as far as i know it only gw that does this no one elsae has made any attempt to stop online sales.. another thing gw has done to endear itself to the public

Thats my view on things

 

and i do discounts in my store as well. Not nearly what i do online, but i am the only store offering everyday discounts.

R

Posted By The Drop Zone on 02/08/2007 6:55 PM

ok heres the deal with selling gw products online as was told to me by the gw rep himself

Obviously keeping in mind that this only applies in the US.

In the rest of the world, GW still allows online sales. In some countries they require retailers to have an actual B&M store in order to set up an account, but they haven't been stupid enough to try to halt online sales entirely.

I was not aware of the fact they allowed it in other parts of the world... makes me wonder about some legality issues now....

wonder why if that is why they mentioned they were working on some grpahics packs to allow posting of stuff online that has been cleared through legal....

They should stop fannying about and just sell licenses to stores to use their pics. That way they can make their precious money without being so fiddly.

"You want to have an online shopping cart system that has our pics of items? It'll cost you this much for that license."

"You want to be the ONLY store in the US to be allowed to have that set up? Well that will cost you this much more darling."

1 - GW is happy because they make a bit more money than they did before, FOR NO EXTRA WORK, WHATSOEVER.
2 - The big retailers are happy because it's something they can afford that smaller and newer competitors can't. They basically pay for a barrier to entry to be put up, which is the whole purpose of a license.
3 - Consumers can order something and know if they're going to get it or not.

Dropzone: The topic's been thrashed over, and the consensus seems to be that it's completely legal. They probobly can't sue for any damages, but they can certainly stop selling product to a retailer that violates their policies.

As for why it's allowed in Europe but not the US... I have no idea. there was a theory a couple years back that the EU has a law that mandates a company must sell their product to retailers, regardless of how they then resell it. It seems pretty odd.

Yep, it's only GWUS stopped allowing online sales via an electronic shopping cart the summer of 2002 (iirc). The War Store and Chaos Mail Order are the only two online stores that weathered this as they were both already set up as mail order shops and had the infrastructure in place. Many, many others had to close up shop (including some B&M shops that used online sales as an added revenue channel).

Along with all the online (and some B&M) retailers going out of business came a sharp decrease in advertising revenues, which in turn killed a lot of ad-supported sites (Portent for one). This also coincided with the sharp nosedive in US sales, which has only continued, largely unabated. And what did GW do durring this time? Prosecuted fan sites for using their IP.

This has slackened off considerably, but the US internet sales ban is still in place (if you have a GW account, that is), and the handful that have started to sneak them back in are probably wondering if (or when?) they are going to get a Cease & Desist from the GW legal thugs. Unless rumors are correct and they are going to repeal the online ban (which a graphics pack would seem to indicate). Who knows, I'll believe it when I see it.

mikhaila, or any other B&M retailer without an online element, why not? One of the local shops does some pretty brisk business via it's eBay store while maintaining a traditional game store (it's an even mix of tabletop, RPG, CCG, CMG and classic standards). By doing so they have the same typical store set up one comes to expect, but also the added revenue that online sales to a global market allows. Just curious, I know at my old LFGS the owner would never ever do such (he was a sort of a Luddite), but would simultaneously grouse about eBay and what not eating his profits.

mikhaila, or any other B&M retailer without an online element, why not? One of the local shops does some pretty brisk business via it's eBay store while maintaining a traditional game store (it's an even mix of tabletop, RPG, CCG, CMG and classic standards). By doing so they have the same typical store set up one comes to expect, but also the added revenue that online sales to a global market allows. Just curious, I know at my old LFGS the owner would never ever do such (he was a sort of a Luddite), but would simultaneously grouse about eBay and what not eating his profits.

For me, it's a matter of time, and space. I really hate to do things half-assed. And screwing up a mailorder business means hurting customers. I'd need to get more space at one of my shops, to set up a shipping area, and the needed paperwork and systems to make sure orders are properly filled and tracked, and any problems taken care of.

I already work 70 hours a week, don't take days off, and have a lovely set of twin girls just hitting 7 months. So time for me isn't an option. Even if I shake loose a few hours a week, I'd rather put that time into more events at the stores. I like to make special scenery for gaming events, and run lots of events: tournaments, big battles, historical scenarios, painting or scenery clinics, etc.

So to summarize:

1. Doing it right takes time, energy, space.

2. I need all that to just keep the balls I'm already juggling in the air.)

Now is some enterprizing young man with smarts, nohow, and ambition rolls into town, and does't mind living in a basement for years shipping out bitz, then I'll consider it.)

I think GW has finally realized that B&M stores just don't matter. At least, not for their business model. They willl make the same profit no matter where the sales come from. They started this whole "kill the net retailer" thing in order to "pronote the b&m stores that were the heart and soul of the hobby."

Well, there are far fewer b&m stores now and GW sales are down. I think GW believes at this point a b&m store that is still standing since 02 - 03 will survive no matter what. So why not help out the net retailers?

Oh, and just a quick question for the store owners out there.... How many gaming stores have sideline businesses such as comics, toy store, model trains, etc.... The few stores that I know of that are still going strong have their main line income from comics and not the gaming aspects. 

ender502

Inside the EU the law prevents them from discriminating against online retailers. Once you sell stock to someone you can't control how they sell it except to stipulate it must be resold in the original packaging. New online sellers spring up in the UK every few weeks almost. Many try to operate through ebay. Most go belly up in short order when they find they can't make the profits they thought they would.

In the UK GW took out most of our local gaming stores during their retail expansion. The few that are left survive on RPG/collectable stuff.

Posted By ender502 on 02/10/2007 5:19 AM

Oh, and just a quick question for the store owners out there.... How many gaming stores have sideline businesses such as comics, toy store, model trains, etc.... The few stores that I know of that are still going strong have their main line income from comics and not the gaming aspects. 

ender502

Based on surveys I've seen, only about 25% of game stores carry only games. Hobby/Game, Game/Comic, Game/Comic/Sport Cards, seem to be more prevalent than stores selling only games.

Even saying 'Game Store' is misleading. I know stores that sell only board games, only CCG's, only historicals, or only miniatures. Many definitions of what a game store is.

Many stores carry a mix of lines for two reasons: 1) Not enough sales in any one category and 2) If something tanks, you have alternatives to keep you going.

I've ordered from a few e-tailers since my last post here and thought I'd share:

http://www.miniature-giant.com

I ordered a few blisters of Reaper that I needed. Awesome pricing, quick shipping. Although I didn't like the fact that you had to select "no Painter's Log" during checkout, or else they would open the blisters and put in a "Painter's Log" (still no idea what that is..)


http://www.chaosorc.com

Ordered a Throne Of Judgement, Cultists, and Sevora & Severina. Awesome prices (best I've seen advertised), some old and hard-to-find minis, though there was a slight delay in shipment (although this is probably because of the bad winter weather out east that week). I'm certainly ordering from again!

Sorry you had bad luck with Neal. I have been ordering from him since he opened shop back in 2000? I have had nothing but top notch service. Yes I have had a few mess ups, but at the end of the day he went above and beyond to fix it.
My question to you is would you rather order from a company who s willing to fix thier mistakes or ignore them and give you the shaft?

Neal has nearly always worked for me. I've had two slip ups with him. Once, he shipped me the wrong stuff. Second, he sent me stuff about two weeks late, because he didn't have it in stock.

Either way, he's my best e-retailer experience.

Chuck

So on the whole, how many of you vouch for the War Store, or not?

I'm interested in getting something from them, but I don't have the time for drama.
Will I pay my money and get my stuff? or will I have an issue, I don't have time for issues, and I don't need excuses. From Chuckyhol's other thread, this is my closest second.

Thanks!

Go the warstore. Without a doubt, he is the fastest, most efficient and most helpful e-retailer out there.

The only thing is, his discount isn't as big. Even that, have a chat to him and i'm sure he'll work something out.

You'll pay your cash, and get your stuff. Neal doesn't deal in excuses. Once when I had my misorder, he sent me exactly what I ordered and then some.

Thewarstore is currently the best there is.

Chuck

And stay away from The Drop Zone. From what I've read the past week or so, his service is reprehensible. He's got 1 Ttread dedicated to him here and at least 5 threads dedicated to him being a bad trader on Bartertown. They all stem from him receiving money and customers not receiving their products.

I've had few dealings with Neal, but as far as I can remember, no problems. I also deal with BWBits frequently and have had nothing but good service. Seeing the threads about The Drop Zone make me want to NOT do business with him at all. The Drop Zone's web site also leaves me feeling that he really isn't cut out to be in business.

I ordered bits from BWBits and everything came through in good time and its a very user friendly website. I would shop there again!

If you like your money being spent on "something" then avoid The Drop Zone!

I buy from Neal whenever my FLGS either doesn't stock or can't order quickly whichever toy I've gotta have next. This works out to about once a month or so, and I've had zero problems. About 1/3 of my orders seem to ship same day, and arrive before the charge clears on my bank account.

 

Recommended

I honestly can't think of a better site than Neal's.

@ ancientsociety - So ChaosOrc is legit? I've had some misgivings about buying from them, doubting how they can offer such low prices and OOP stuff. But if you say they were so good, maybe I'll give CO another thought next time I'm looking for some older stuff. Actually, think I'll cruise over there shortly and browse a bit ...

- Boss Salvage

I've also ordered from Neal at the Warstore. My orders have all been correct, prompt, and the customer service is responsive. I've ordered many things my FLGS does not stock - if you need it, chances are Neal has it.