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Alexia and Risen are awesome for Cygnar, they even make me consider using the Mechanic and goblin blogers, because if they die, I get more Risen (plus they can repair jacks!). Alexia's magic damage (her spell paralytic fear, I think) has proven invaluable against incorporeal units. Her Thralls are prefect targets for earthquakes or chain lightings when your opponent is just out of range, LOS or protected by a non targeting effect. Also Alexia can turn the tables on Cryx by controlling a unit for a turn and is very useful against horde armies.

I am finding it easier and easier to convert the 40K players lately. It certainly takes little effort as the rules lawyers and GW are getting worse with each new codex. Hordes seems to be really catching on at my FLAGS.

All you really need to tell someone is that when they buy that 55 dollar Behemoth, or whatever, it will stay the way it is. Huge amounts of their army, if not the whole thing, will not be invalidated when new rulebooks come out.

Posted By Toreador on 05/22/2007 1:19 PM
Both games have their issues and problems. I get tired of both after awhile. Too much stuff to remember in WM, and being beaten by some trick you didn't remember is somewhat painful. Keeping up with all the rules clarifications and finding that something you thought worked a certain way only to be shot down mid game by someone with a print off of the forum gets tiring. It's a lot to keep track of.

Just the same playing only against the few armies or combos that people play in 40k is just as irritating. As diverse as the universe is, there is so much that just doesn't work. It becomes a challenge, but it is very disheartening.

I have that issue with both games.  Ive played both off and on for years.  The card game nature of warmachine (Entirely combo driven with little variety (also errata!)), vs the very unbalanced nature of 40k (duh) keep me from ever enjoying either one for an extended period of time.  The games are very disimilar so I don't ever really plan to favor one over the other.  Both can be fun and both can be so stupid it makes you want to tear your hair out.

Well the nice thing about Warmachine vs. 40k is...you can have both.

The way I see it, a veteran gamer has at least one 40k army done. Complete. Finito.

Instead of starting that new 40k army that was just released but they only sort of
kind of want to try, they can start a warmachine army and have something playable
for less. If they like it, then they can alternate between latest releases for 40k and
the continuous releases for Warmachine.

PP has a better rule set and the game play is more dynamic. Moreover, there are frequent FAQs and clarifications to keep the tournament scene folks happy.

PP is a good change of pace for the gamer who prefers strong game mechanics and rules. 40k is a beer and pretzel game. PP is an Atavan and Vodka game.

I really wouldn't consider the constant errata and FAQs to be a GOOD thing for the tourny scene. Before remix the errata list was what? The size of prime itself?

Posted By nikeforever22 on 08/14/2007 5:44 PM
PP is an Atavan and Vodka game.

Just don't drink too much, because you actually have to think about what you're doing in WM/Hor.

For what it's worth, I think there're three main reasons I don't play PP games.

1) I don't really love the models. Some have some character, some have some nice detail, but I just don't really love them. I bought the beginning of a Khador force and just lost interest in it. Jacks are big clunky chunks of metal, which I've never liked, and they're a bit bland and irritating to paint. I don't like painting in subassemblies if I can help it, and they seem to require it. They've got lots of flat open surface to fill. Just don't love the models.

GW's models make me feel like a star. I slap them together, do my thing, and folks at the gaming store are blown away. When I got done with my Khador Jack it just looked sorta dull and didn't highlight any particularly noteworthy skills. It was like somebody did a very competent job coloring in a coloring book.

2) The rules are unfamilliar and expansive. It appears to me that in the long run they'd be simpler than GW rules because they all play together better and were written with a better grasp of how to write a game system, but there's an initial investment in study that seems higher.

Put another way, 40K is, say, ten rules at its core and then a hundred more peripheral rules that are always colliding, conflicting, etc. PP's system seems more like it's about 50 core rules, and that's basically it.

I also remember what it was like before I had 40K sorted out, all the basics that can't really be taught and have to be learned the hard way. I'm not a fan of losing, but I'm double not a fan of losing when I have no chance.

3) I'm not regularly confronted with chances to play it. At my FLGS they play 40K, and that's about it. Lately I've seen some WHFB there as well, but mostly one guy trying to get kids interested in it. There is another FLGS that is making a push to gain regular players, and I think they play more PP games. I can honestly say that I've only ever seen people playing WM once, and that appeared to be a demo game at a store that's around and hour away from me.

So, to speak to all three of those at once, if I were to go to the FLGS, see a really neat looking army that inspired me to paint my own, get a chance to watch the game played and absorb the rules in action, and then be told "we'll be here every weekend," then I think it'd be a done deal that I'd paint up my own force.

That's too bad, really.  You're missing out.

1. I can see.  I was enamored with Cryx models almost immediately.  True though that PP has a different aesthetic than GW.  Not much to be done about that, I suppose.  I think the only reason I haven't started on Hordes is that I don't like all the models of a single faction.  If I could mix and match, I'd be a happy camper.  My opponents might have something to say about that, though.

2.  WM/Hor do have a pretty steep learning curve.  There's a lot going on there and it can be quite overwhelming, especially at the beginning.  At least you have cards for your units that let you know their special rules, which helps.

3.  Yeah, the death knell.  I got into it basically because my gaming group started playing it exclusively.  And then I was hooked.  They say the first one's always free...