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She had some tight jeans, though.

It’s attitudes like this that keep female gamers out of the hobby… I know you were only being sarcastic, but this is a pretty accurate representation of the hobby community.

Once I was at a tournament, my first opponent, a balding man in his 30’s, seriously asked what I was doing when I started to open my figure cases. He actually ended calling the referee up to check I was actually in the tournament. Needless to say I was pretty mad.  

Not that I’m bitter about being a female gamer or anything…

I bet his sportsmanship score took a hit

Posted By Lormax on 06/26/2007 12:03 PM
I bet his sportsmanship score took a hit

I hope his balls took a hit.
I mean seriously, I would have been raged if I met such an ignorant person.

And were you talking to me or Janthkin with your "Attitude"-post, Naenia?

Ironic Avatar pic, by the way. Woman in steel bikini.

Anyway, I don't think that gamers like that represent the gaming community as a whole. I expect that 90% of the guys here would be as friendly as to guygamers if they met a girl on the other side of the table. How friendly that would be is another topic...

Greets
Schepp himself

Apologies if I offended (though I stand by my statement - Alyx was wearing tight jeans throughout HL2).

If it helps, my wife games (though not tabletop minis, sadly). I have encountered a fair number (though a huge minority) of female 40k players over the years. Their quality varied, just as does that of the male gamers. On the whole, I think they had better-looking models, though I hesitate to draw conclusions (inadeqate sample size).

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grrl gamerz exist, they're great, yadda, yadda, yadda:

Now vote for Necromunda!!!

BYE

After trying female, I pretended I was male because I wanted to do the survey (I think they would get a lot more responses by allowing women - most I know like surveys) - but it was boring. Asking me only about Dawn of War and what how important I thought various aspects of the games were, and how important they would be in a sequel, and how much I enjoyed each aspect, and so on... I last played that game ages ago

There's a response up now saying that they are seeking only a certain number of answers from each demographic - but since there are no reports anywhere of people stating they are female being able to do it, they must have had very low maximums for that demographic - like zero even.
What possible reason is there for setting up such an extensive survey if they aren't going to collect as many results as possible? There's no point in restricting the responses from certain groups. Furthermore, they are not going to be able to increase their market if they only focus on a small existing group, and if there is another large market out there that already play the games - over 34 year olds perhaps - they may end up alienating them through bad design choices by not getting their opinion. Or through insulting them by implying they are too old.

Weird.

Posted By standgale on 06/26/2007 8:30 PM
After trying female, I pretended I was male because I wanted to do the survey

Me too.  But then I got the operation and I didn't have to pretend anymore.  Wait, what survey?

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 06/26/2007 9:31 PM
Me too.  But then I got the operation and I didn't have to pretend anymore.  Wait, what survey?

Classic

Posted By standgale on 06/26/2007 9:36 PM

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 06/26/2007 9:31 PM
Me too.  But then I got the operation and I didn't have to pretend anymore.  Wait, what survey?

Classic

But of course. We all know that Abba rules.

The restricted demographic thing is standard with surveys as it saves time and prevents the results being skewed in favour of demographics who's opinions they aren't interested in.

Excluding females and adults from their survey means they only gather the opinions of young males and clearly they are the target demographic for the game. The fact that older people and women may be interested in their game doesn't matter to them as they don't expect to ever sell significant quantities of the game to them.

Sure it sucks that us older folks opinions don't appear to matter. But from their point of view if they skewed things to suit older gamers they may risk doing somtething less attractive to younger gamers and thereby triying to please people that would not be buying the game while harming the interests of those who potentially would buy it.

Personally their decision is bang on for me as I currently have zero interest in video games anymore, although as a teenager and into my early 20's I used to play a lot.

GW/THQ will have identified their main target market segment (men aged 15-34) and now need to take a representative sample of that segment. The sample size will be based on industry standard calculations of required representative sample sizes for making statistical analyses with a particular degree of confidence.

To be representative the sample needs to include a cross-section of respondents resembling the real population it's drawn from. For example, they probably need 20% professional workers, 30% students, 40% blue collar workers, etc. (I'm just imagining these numbers.) They can then be reasonably sure that the answers given by their sample are the same as the answers they would get if they put the same questions to the whole target segment.

Doing this in a web site is quite cheap since you can configure the site to record all the data in a format that can easily be put into statistical analysis packages. There's no questionnaires to print and post, and no interview time.

The disadvantage is that the survey can be biased by people logging on and lying about their age and sex and giving a bunch of made-up crap for the answers. For example, a talented but malicious computer science graduate might write a Unix script that did multiple logons from different computers around his campus, and fill in every question to say that the Pan-Fo ought to appear in the game.

There are different ways to guard against this and other biases but it all makes for extra work. A good start would have been not to piss off the respondents they didn't want by (a) saying at the beginning that they only wanted age 15-34 men, or (b) explaining it at the end rather than just saying "Thank you for your participation."

I studied all this stuff 2 years ago and even passed the exam but I can't remember anything now. Anyway, I think you can see that Marketing is a lot more involved that you might have thought.

Killkrazy: Sounds like you remember just the right stuff.

Wait,_ people_ play 40k? Who knew?

I took the survey off of the GW UK site and slogged through (after fudging my age and giving the answers they wanted to hear) the survey. A screen came up and asked where I lived and didn't think for a second of saying USA; and was thanked for my participation. There's 20 minuets I'll never get back.

Posted By Kilkrazy on 06/27/2007 5:00 AM
For example, a talented but malicious computer science graduate might write a Unix script that did multiple logons from different computers around his campus, and fill in every question to say that the Pan-Fo ought to appear in the game.

Alright, everybody listen up because this is very important.  Does anyone know a talented but malicious computer science graduate?

I got all the way through the questionaire until it asked me where I lived, and then it stopped.  So, either that's the end of the questionaire or they don't want the opinions of anyone who lives in utah. 

I'd buy a Pan-Fo game... if plans for one were finally reviled...

If you don't want to annoy participants, however, you don't make it obvious that you don't want their input. Accept female input, and dump it into your database. When you gather your statistics, don't include it, if you don't want to. Ditto for old farts. That way, you a) don't insult people who are trying to help you by filling out your survey; and b) HAVE the information, if you decide, oh, that maybe you want a broader demographic?

Not ditching people as they start the survey also does something else very important...it gets you much more accurate data. Raise your hand if you provided false information in order to take the survey once you found out that giving real data booted you out? *raises his hand*

People will generally be honest the first go around if they are filling out something voluntarily. Once it is "forced" on them or they find they can't do what they want when telling the truth, they usually resort to lying.

Posted By Kilkrazy on 06/27/2007 5:00 AM
The disadvantage is that the survey can be biased by people logging on and lying about their age and sex and giving a bunch of made-up crap for the answers. For example, a talented but malicious computer science graduate might write a Unix script that did multiple logons from different computers around his campus, and fill in every question to say that the Pan-Fo ought to appear in the game.

Really? Cool. I'm gonna get someone I know who can do that to make one that votes for Necromunda a thousand times...

BYE

Posted By Osbad on 06/27/2007 2:58 AM
The restricted demographic thing is standard with surveys as it saves time and prevents the results being skewed in favour of demographics who's opinions they aren't interested in.

Excluding females and adults from their survey means they only gather the opinions of young males and clearly they are the target demographic for the game. The fact that older people and women may be interested in their game doesn't matter to them as they don't expect to ever sell significant quantities of the game to them.

Sure it sucks that us older folks opinions don't appear to matter. But from their point of view if they skewed things to suit older gamers they may risk doing somtething less attractive to younger gamers and thereby triying to please people that would not be buying the game while harming the interests of those who potentially would buy it.

The problem with this is that they could still collect all the data, and then filter it if they want, and they actually have the full picture. With this kind of survey I don't really see how it can be skewed in any way that is bad. If women answer it and you aren't interested in marketing to women, then yes, it is skewed slightly in a bad way. But since it asks, do you play video games, how often, do you play dawn of war, why did you like it, etc, then it doesn't matter how old you are or what gender. Surely their demographic should be "people who are interested in buying and playing WH40k video games" rather than "people in X age group who are male". I think the first is a lot more useful. If they take the opinions of all people who buy computer games, they would end up with a game with much wider appeal and make more money.
The results would not end up skewed towards women or older people unless those people happened to be really interested in their proposed product and register a lot of interest through the survey - and that would not be a bad thing but a good thing because they would end up making a game that appealed to those most interested people.

Posted By thegrognard on 06/27/2007 9:43 AM
I took the survey off of the GW UK site and slogged through (after fudging my age and giving the answers they wanted to hear) the survey. A screen came up and asked where I lived and didn't think for a second of saying USA; and was thanked for my participation. There's 20 minuets I'll never get back.

It asked me what state I live in - so I had to pick one because there was no options for other countries. I picked New York. Afterwards I went back to check the start of the survey to see if I'd missed anything about only taking it if you are in the USA, I didn't see anything. Not great design in that area, that would skew results a little.

Posted By jm72076 on 06/27/2007 10:35 AM
I'd buy a Pan-Fo game... if plans for one were finally reviled...

(OMINOUS VOICE )They have always been reviled.(/OMINOUS VOICE)

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 06/27/2007 2:31 PM

Posted By Kilkrazy on 06/27/2007 5:00 AM
The disadvantage is that the survey can be biased by people logging on and lying about their age and sex and giving a bunch of made-up crap for the answers. For example, a talented but malicious computer science graduate might write a Unix script that did multiple logons from different computers around his campus, and fill in every question to say that the Pan-Fo ought to appear in the game.

Really? Cool. I'm gonna get someone I know who can do that to make one that votes for Necromunda a thousand times...

BYE

Get him to make one to vote a thousand times for Pan Fo as well!  Do it!

And remember - you are swan to secrecy!

 

It's my understanding that the survey was made up by THQ, and they asked GW to put it up for them.

 

GW should be kicked in the Donkey for not checking the survey, but they weren't the ones guilty of the blatant agism and sexism.

I'd call/write THQ if you are angry enough.

And forget Necromunda. Bring back Trolls in the Pantry.

 

What's Trolls in the Pantry?

It's when Hobbs, Ellios and Torador break into your house to steal food.

BYE

Forget about Trolls in the Pantry, what about :

Yes it did the same thing to me, first question was sex:  Male, next question was age: 58 and I got the Thank you for your participation. 

One of the guys in our play group said the survey never ends, thinks he has answered over 200 questions.  Must be telling them what they want to hear.

Guess they did not want my Thoughts on their stuff.

Warrior 50