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It's not completely out of the scope of possibility, though the whole thing sounds way too petty even for GW, and the timing sounds iffy. I mean, if true, the Warlord would have been worked on for over a year (as the new FW newsletter hints at something "very large indeed") being shown as a WIP in GDUK. Though it's possible it was pushed aside for some time to wait for the Apocalypse, I'm inclined to be skeptical as we've heard not a peep from them during all this time.

I was under the impression that there were perhaps a few dozen or so Armorcast Reavers in the world? A much too small group for GW to go through all of this effort for.

Dont assume so. GW will go a long way out with its doctrine of crushing opposition.

Expect to see no 40K Phantom titan either.

Be that as it may, but this isn't even opposition anymore. It's a handful of people with a handful of old models that will never again be offered for sale.

It's not like it will be all that hard guesstimating the stats for a Reaver from those of the Warhound and the Warlord, especially for Apocalypse games. They won't be official, sure, but I do not think most Apocalypse games will be played in GW-controlled venues anyway.

It's also not a question of GW "losing money" from these people playing with their old models. None of them is going to go "Hmmm, my Reaver has no stats. Hey, I'll buy that Warlord instead." Not having stats has been the case for them ever since 3E came out, they've either made their own by now, or stopped fielding their titans, in which case they scarcely care what happens to them playability-wise.

The 40k Phantom is a no-go by the simple virtue of not being an Imperial vehicle, and as such, not a major priority for FW to begin with. After all, they are called Forge World, not Wraithbone Lathe or Mek's Garage.

Posted By Agamemnon2 on 09/19/2007 2:53 AM

I was under the impression that there were perhaps a few dozen or so Armorcast Reavers in the world? A much too small group for GW to go through all of this effort for.

They were more common than that. I've got one and I remember my FLGS had several for sale as well as the weapon options when Armorcast was still around.

Anyway, it makes me wonder would GW/FW be content to sell a handful of hugely expensve Warlords when they know full-well that more people would buy the less-expensive Reavers (for reasons of price and practicality) and probably make a bigger profit? And if Broon is correct, does that mean the Reaver is getting written out of Epic too?

I agree with Agamemnon2. Mike Biasi Studios / Epicast / Forgeworld USA / Armorcast also produced Warhounds, Eldar Falcons, Eldar Revenants, Eldar Wave Serpents, Bane Blades, Marine Drop Pods, Whirlwind and Vindicator parts, Imperial Bunkers, Ork Stompas and Ork Battlewagons, but GW didn't feel the need to write them out to keep those models out of games.

Yeah fair comment. I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I'd definately prefer a Reaver, I know that much.

Those eldar titans actually were part of the big reason I gave up on Epic. They were just horrible. I did have a bunch of Phantoms already, but that just irked me pretty bad. Not shown is the Warlock version of it.

I really think that some datafaxes will just be saved for the web. The terminus didn't make it into the book and it is a current release. I think they just had to pick and choose, saving everything else for later. No global conspiracy here, just a lack of room. And waiting on the datafax allows them to release it with the new reaver and whatever options they decide to put on it.

Posted By Broon on 09/19/2007 2:10 AM
Here's a quote from the guy that said this. It's the only source I have and I wouldn't call it Gospel or anything, but he did get the correct points on the Warlord on the Datafax we've seen, and this was a while (3wks) before that was posted, so maybe he knows something.

"I was told a year or so back by a FW employee that GW were not impressed with players still using the Armorcast (fully licensed copy) Warhound Titan instead of buying a new Forge World model. Now it seems that GW has gone that extra step to make sure that Armorcast Reaver Titans won't make it into Apocalypse, they have decided to drop the model and go with the Warlord. At 2500 points the Warlord is as large as a lot of players armies, so expect to see a large model and a high cots in $."

  You just quoted some guy from the Bolter & Chainsword.  It mean exactly nothing.  The idea that there's some vast conspiracy to exclude Armorcast (and similar) models from the game is ridiculous.  Those models were from many years ago, and GW got their cut, you better believe. 

  I think that Forge World is planning to do a Reaver Titan, but they haven't decided on all of the weapon options yet, so they're holding back on releasing rules for it. 

So what? I didn't say it was an official stance by GW. The theory has nothing to do with GW getting a cut on past releases, it's about future sales. I'm not saying it's correct, but it means more than what you've written. On what do you base your speculation? How have they not decided what weapons a Reaver can have when they've clearly got years of material from Epic, and have managed to write the datafax for the Warlord weapons?

It just seems rather silly in any kind of context. At least if we are going to have theories, put them on more solid ground.

We will just have to wait and see.....

I use the phrase a lot.

Posted By Elusive71 on 09/17/2007 4:25 PM
I guess we are about due for the Lord of Change... How did you come to find this out?

Elementry my dear watson, elementry. 

Truth be told they have done 3/4 greater deamons over the past 2 years and the lord of change is all thats left so its the logical choice

Posted By Broon on 09/19/2007 10:23 AM
So what? I didn't say it was an official stance by GW. The theory has nothing to do with GW getting a cut on past releases, it's about future sales. I'm not saying it's correct, but it means more than what you've written. On what do you base your speculation? How have they not decided what weapons a Reaver can have when they've clearly got years of material from Epic, and have managed to write the datafax for the Warlord weapons?

  Okay, you're right.  I'm full of it. 

  Using the quote from the B&C was misleading, though.  It implies some sort of authority where none exists. 

Posted By beef on 09/19/2007 2:01 PM

Posted By Elusive71 on 09/17/2007 4:25 PM
I guess we are about due for the Lord of Change... How did you come to find this out?

Elementry my dear watson, elementry. 

Truth be told they have done 3/4 greater deamons over the past 2 years and the lord of change is all thats left so its the logical choice

Good Lord!

Did Beef just employ...

...logic?

The End Times are nigh!

That's only one of the Three Signs of the Apocalypse. He hasn't yet manifested correct spelling or punctuation, so there's no need to panic yet.

Posted By Pariah Press on 09/19/2007 6:45 PM
That's only one of the Three Signs of the Apocalypse. He hasn't yet manifested correct spelling or punctuation, so there's no need to panic yet.

Good points!

Crisis averted!

Finger taken off the Panic Button!

(Actually, the Red Sox recent collapse still has my finger firmly planted on the Panic Button...)

Don't think anyone's answered my question a page back, but do you guys know if the Ogre/Krieg guy are separate or if the hand is molded to the guy's face somehow? I wanna make a diorama of a crisis suit doing the same thing

Posted By Pariah Press on 09/19/2007 9:59 AM
The idea that there's some vast conspiracy to exclude Armorcast (and similar) models from the game is ridiculous.  Those models were from many years ago, and GW got their cut, you better believe.

The fact that GW already got their cut means nothing.  It's not like they don't happily render their own models obsolete all the time, much less those another manufacturer was licensed to produce - they got more than their cut on every genestealer hybrid model they ever sold but you don't see any rules for them in Apocalypse.  But otherwise I agree.  I don't think the Reaver omission had anything to do with Armorcast.

Just because there aren't rules, doesn't mean there won't be. Secondly, GW has entirely opened it up to allow you to do and create whatever you want with this system. Everything is legal, so field those hybrids and cult limos. The sky is the limit with this one.

So that by itself makes me think there is no basis to the rumour.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 09/20/2007 5:50 PM

Posted By Pariah Press on 09/19/2007 9:59 AM
The idea that there's some vast conspiracy to exclude Armorcast (and similar) models from the game is ridiculous.  Those models were from many years ago, and GW got their cut, you better believe.

The fact that GW already got their cut means nothing.  It's not like they don't happily render their own models obsolete all the time, much less those another manufacturer was licensed to produce - they got more than their cut on every genestealer hybrid model they ever sold but you don't see any rules for them in Apocalypse.  But otherwise I agree.  I don't think the Reaver omission had anything to do with Armorcast.

To go one step further, I would say there is no evidence presented for "the reaver omission" at all.

Well ~ ~I for one will being using my 2 Reavers as Warlords. Eat that and die GW. Never will i be stupid enough to pay £300 + £30P+P for a forge world warhound. Big mistake, its still waiting to be painted

http://warseer.com/forums/40k-news-rumour-discussion/104168-new-reaver-titan-picture.html

The FW "big kit" they are working on was a Reaver.

Q.E.D.

So much for Beef logic.