Drop Pods-Too powerful?????

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**akira5665**

It certainly seems to be the case that Drop-pod armies are beatable. My main hypothesis is starting to solidify.
There are EXPERIENCED gamers out there who will wipe the floor with a Drop-pod army. Players who know various combo's etc that crush 'em. My main point though is, are they too powerful for your average-new player?

I think if little Timmy bought 4 from GW to go with his Black Templar Army, then played against a friend, they would not play too many more, due to a floggin'.

Before everybody goes"yeah right Akira" , I am putting forward the idea that they are too powerful for the 'average/new' player to beat.

Remember, this is one of the MOST preferred entry options for SM's in 40k Fluff, so I think that there are VERY good reasons that GW do not release/promote Droppies.

Yes Gentlemen, most Dakka bloggers are DP floggers, but the new guys are toast. That is why I think GW do not release them. For over 20 years mind you. Food for thought, as they are really a Business, concerning a hobby. Don't kill the hobby with Uber-powerful Armies, and your Business grows.........................

**General Hobbs**

Posted By mauleed on 11/06/2007 1:42 PM

Posted By General Hobbs on 11/06/2007 7:46 AM

Posted By mauleed on 11/02/2007 9:59 PM

Did I miss an FAQ while I was gone that allows mystics to shoot at non-deepstriking pods while I was away?

I played terminator heavy pods for a while, and only nids gave me worries (but the new eldar book wasn't out long, and would have been tough in escalation games). The terminators and their extra range tended to make the army less 'gimmicky', but overall I agree with the sentiments listed.

Yes you did. In the Blood Angels codex FAQ there is a question that asks if Blood Angels can assault after disemarking from a Drop Pod ( yes, it says disemarking).

The answer is a very generic answer that covers the issue at hand. No, as units that enter by Deep Striking cannot assault the turn they enter.

The answer is not Blood Angels specific. It is a very general answer that shows the answer is an obvious one that the questioner should have known.

First, that answer is certainly blood angels specific.

But secondly, the blood angel pods SPECIFICALLY SAY THEY DEEPSTRIKE!

Nowhere does it say there is such a thing as a Blood Angels Drop Pod. Blood Angels use Drop Pods, the same as all other Marines. Nowhere is there a Blood Angels Inertial Guidance System etc etc. Stop trying to find a loophole in the rules. There isn't one, and this is insulting for a player of your caliber to be making an argument about.

**Green Bloater**

I understand mauleed's position and believe it is valid. It would be nice if GW made a written ruling to clarify this issue. That said I play all drop pods the same (except for points cost) as this makes it easier on everyone.

- G

**Phazael**

Posted By akira5665 on 11/06/2007 1:52 PM
It certainly seems to be the case that Drop-pod armies are beatable. My main hypothesis is starting to solidify.
There are EXPERIENCED gamers out there who will wipe the floor with a Drop-pod army. Players who know various combo's etc that crush 'em. My main point though is, are they too powerful for your average-new player?

I think if little Timmy bought 4 from GW to go with his Black Templar Army, then played against a friend, they would not play too many more, due to a floggin'.

Before everybody goes"yeah right Akira" , I am putting forward the idea that they are too powerful for the 'average/new' player to beat.

Remember, this is one of the MOST preferred entry options for SM's in 40k Fluff, so I think that there are VERY good reasons that GW do not release/promote Droppies.

Yes Gentlemen, most Dakka bloggers are DP floggers, but the new guys are toast. That is why I think GW do not release them. For over 20 years mind you. Food for thought, as they are really a Business, concerning a hobby. Don't kill the hobby with Uber-powerful Armies, and your Business grows.........................

For the average gamer who has a typical guard/ork/non-cheesed SM army, they will have no real shot at beating a well designed pod army, but that is easily the case with any competitive tournament build. The real issue, in my mind, is that their presence in the game has pretty much made people abandon several archtypical army builds in competitive play. Specifically:

Guard- The massed foot slogger guard army is pretty much gone from competitive play. Unlike Nids or Orks, they just don't have the kind of morale defenses and mass CC power to absorb a massed pod landing.

Edar- Its either huddle around the Avatar to avoid Fear of Darkness, or (much more frequently) mount up. I personally can't remember the last time I saw an eldar army without either of those two builds, even prior to the rescent codex.

Tau- Pretty much in the same boat as the Eldar, only worse, thanks to no defense against the Big Boo or any other psychic tactic. Fish of Fury was practically invented in response to the Pod threat.

Now, the guys who are stuffing 1-2 ten man tac squads into pods are not the ones causing the balance problems and the way things have been going in the newer marine books, I think it is going to work itself out, but right now the metagame is mostly dorked because of the presence of pod armies, particularly when they combine with AC spam or multi-librarian elements. When you start seeing more diverse and manueverable SM armies, with larger squads, you will see a lot of the other unbalanced lists become a lot less effective, as well (particularly Nidzilla and Mech Eldar).

**skyth**

Larger squads means weaker marines...Just makes Nidzilla and Mech Eldar more powerful.

**akira5665**

Yeeeeeees. we are all aware of the inconsistencies between Codex's. The original thread topic is wavering.........

**akira5665**

Phazael, that is a spot-on observation. Thanks soooo much for your view on things.! It was just the sort of thing i was looking forward to reading when I started this thread. Thanx mate!

**Phazael**

Posted By skyth on 11/06/2007 4:38 PM
Larger squads means weaker marines...Just makes Nidzilla and Mech Eldar more powerful.

Yes and no. Honestly, as a mech eldar player, a static army full of 5 man las plas doesn't bother me in the least because you can pretty much surgically destroy those units without any fear of reprisal, as an eldar player. Full sized squads, on the other hand, require a serious commitment of force that often puts you into a vulnerable position, especially when backed up by sizable mobile units waiting to counter charge. This is why Crons are such a hinderance to Mech Eldar/Tau, as well, because the units are too large to take out piecemeal and every Warrior can potentially down a skimmer. Larger squads that suck you into prolonged fights are a huge issue for Eldar in general and mech eldar in particular.

Nidzilla thrives on the metagame tendancy towards small MEQ units, as well. An army with large units sporting powerfists and some mobility can put the hurt on Nidzilla, but no one runs that sort of army anymore, partially due to pods and partially due to every MEQ player being focused on beating the other MEQs out there. When SM players start building armies around ten man units with mobility again, Eldar and Nid players will have a need for higher model counts and you will see a serious tempering down of the curent forms of Nidzilla and Cylon Death Fleet Eldar.

**mauleed**

Posted By General Hobbs on 11/06/2007 2:25 PM

Nowhere is there a Blood Angels Inertial Guidance System etc etc.

Obviously you need to crack your white dwarf open and read the 'Inertial Guidance System' entry in your Blood Angels army list.

Because clearly they DO have a Blood Angels Inertial Guidance System.

**Augustus**

Green Bloater> I understand mauleed's position and believe it is valid. ... I play all drop pods the same

Mauleed's position is correct, I concur, and I recognize anyone can play by whatever they want, but why play all drop pods the same? That's like playing all rhinos the same, even though they are called the same thing, with the same model, they have differences accross codexes because that's what they wrote.

Drop pods are in the same situation, they are context specific in each codex, just because they are called Drop Pods does not mean one can assume they should all have the same rules, they don't.

Ironically the more expensive ones in the DA codex are not as good, but that's what they wrote. ( For the record I think the DA codex is pretty bad.)

**Green Bloater**

Okay what is the most powerful:

drop pod
assault cannon
super falcon
dakka fex

???

**akira5665**

My Drop pods ALWAYS contain the same.
10-man squad
1x Powerfist Sarge with Bolt pistol(the way I roll, a plasma would kill 'im)
1x Melta-gun
1x Heavy weapon.
The traits I give them-Trust your Battle Bro's(Counter attack and True grit)
ALWAYS put a deathwind on top of the droppie(The Ord Temp-S5, AP5). Nice.

**Frazzled**

Posted By Green Bloater on 11/07/2007 1:56 PM
Okay what is the most powerful:

drop pod
assault cannon
super falcon
dakka fex

???

I've never seen drop pods without beaucoup assault cannons. They go together like moonshine and bus drivers with buses full of kids.

Posted By akira5665 on 11/07/2007 2:08 PM
My Drop pods ALWAYS contain the same.
10-man squad
1x Powerfist Sarge with Bolt pistol(the way I roll, a plasma would kill 'im)
1x Melta-gun
1x Heavy weapon.
The traits I give them-Trust your Battle Bro's(Counter attack and True grit)
ALWAYS put a deathwind on top of the droppie(The Ord Temp-S5, AP5). Nice.

I was going to say they always include a 5 man termie squad with 2 Assault Cannons

**Phoenix**

One of the main problems with drop pods is that they obsolete rhinos. Who wants to pay more for a transport that can get blown up before you get where you are going? Why not just spend less points and get the transport that deep strikes you in with no chance of getting killed by landing on the enemy?

Why not take the 30 point transport for terminators instead of the 250+ one?

The primary thing that chafes me about the drop pod is that there is nothing you can do about them. The always come in (baring really really bad reserve rolls) and there isn't anything you can do to react against them (with the laughable exception of auxpex). Normal transports can be shot at before they get to you, but pods are a gaurenteed dilevery system. That's stupid powerful for only 30 points.

**akira5665**

Naahhhhh. 5-man termie squads become non-scoring units quick-smart. Just kill 3, with 30 lasgun shots from yourIG @ 6 pts each, that termie squad is toast.

10 Marines in power armour. 3+ save. nice.

**tegeus-Cromis**

30 lasgun shots? 15 hits, 5 wounds, almost 1 failed save. Nice.

IG can do the job, no doubt, but it sure as hell won't be with lasguns.

**IntoTheRain**

Is there some reason were debating whether a list that effectively died over 6 months ago is overpowered?

The list was brilliant when it came out, but the fact that it can't realistically beat Mech Eldar or Zilla Nids, as well as the fact that people have gotten better both in planning for, and fighting Pods means the list is no longer viable.

and Akira
-30 shots
-15 hits
-5 wounds
-1.666 dead marines, 0.833 dead terminators

**akira5665**

Math-hammer does not work when playing against me.

On many occaisions, I have had to roll 5 Dice to make 5, 2+ termie saves.

I rolled- 1,1,1,1-2.
Because I suk @ dice rolling, I try to make it as painless as possible!!

**Frazzled**

I've seen pod forces do quite well against mech eldar. I haven't seen them vs. Nids so can't comment.

I guess the better question is, do you see competitive marine lists without them?

**Phazael**

I would say that the AC Spam army, with a side of Big Boo is the most competitive marine army at the moment, at least against what I have been playing against. Massed Razorbacks is also a bear to fight, as a mech skimmer player, but its not as solid in the mirror match.

**Daydream**

I think that it depends on the points level. I think pods are best at the 1500 to 1750 level. Above that you almost have too many pods and placing all of them can be difficult. I'll agree that AC spam and Big Boo are still integral components, but not pods.

I would agree that they are the best marine build at 1500 to 1750 though. I've struggled to find anything else that can compete with them.

**skyth**

I know I splattered a pod force with my zillas...5 AC's and boo librarian...

**Voodoo Boyz**

I dropped using pods (lol) for a more traditional SAFH Marine list and did much, much better with that than I ever did with Pods.

The problems with Pods, from my perspective:

1.) You're way too dependent on a few amount of dice rolls, every game.

If I have everything drop in turn 2, against a smart player, I will lose many games.

2.) Against Mech Eldar and Zillas, it's going to suck, a lot. Especially in missions. Zillas can play against pods just fine, especially in say "Take and Hold" or "Recon" where you have to deepstrike into their zone, which is plenty easy for them to go and concentrate on you. You simply will not do enough damage on the drop to really hurt them.

**akira5665**

80 Marines.
8 Drop pods
14 Heavy weapons
6 Melta guns.
Less than 2000 points.

8 reserve rolls second turn.
4 SHOULD(if you roll averages) come down.
Leaves 4 for a more tactical deployment.

The original point of the thread though is that the average newbie would cop a floggin'.

Most Dakkites do not fall under this category.

**Samwise158**

I think that what voodoo is getting at is that even if four should come in, it doesn't mean that they will. A poorly timed drop can leave a podding army dead in the water. If you end up playing escalation and are stuck with the first turn, if 6 of your pods show up on turn 2 and the other guy's Zillas or Skimmers are all still in reserve, your army is going to get ripped apart.

Pods have problems against the top tier builds because they are somewhat random. Those armies can deal with a full fledged drop, but static armies can't. Also, new Orks are going to crush any podding army. For some armies, there are a certain set of ways to deploy and react if you are going against an all podding army, a new player won't know this stuff and as people have said. Castling up an waiting for a drop isn't much fun.

30pts is too cheap for what a pod can do. I'm glad they bumped up the price in the DA/BA codex and hope they do the same thing in SM Redux whenever it hits. All Pods should be a finesse army, one that is fun to play against, even unexpectedly.