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Relatively so. (I meant "substantial", of course. "Substantive" is a nonsense word in this context, my bad.)

Therion: "Dual Lash is crucial to a tourney list!"

You: "Nuh-uh!"

The former could do with more explanation, except that whole threads have already been devoted to the uses of Lash; to repeat them is almost unnecessary. (To say it's required is obviously hyperbolic, since Peter Elias won without any Lash, but that's neither here nor there.) The latter is blatantly content-free and possibly trolling.

I'd never claim that you don't contribute, Stelek. You have many worthwhile posts. The worth of those posts, however, does not transfer to obvious junk posts like that one by means of osmosis.

I give as good (or bad) as I get.

I'm only human.

Stelek wrote:I give as good (or bad) as I get.

I'm only human.

Why do you have an empty line between nearly each sentence? I know you're only human, but the rest of the homo sapiens treat this place as a message board, not IRC. Message boards are places where people are basically mailing questions, answers and opinions to eachother. That's why stuff like ROFLOLWTFBBQOWNEDKTHXPLDBYE or /laugh /spit /mock doesn't really work. Call message boards old fashioned but it means we get to keep higher standards.

The minute someone can break my own personal experiences and PROVE me wrong in a game, I'll admit I'm wrong. It hasn't happened in over a decade. TEN YEARS. I'm so gakky at this game, why am I undefeated vs everyone I've played at GTs

Well if you're an American someone here should know you and by extension know of your tournament heroics, because I get the feeling that each time I ask you how many major tournaments you've won you make a feeble attempt to change the topic of the discussion. You know, Mauleed and Darrian were talking about a little challenge game at the Baltimore GT, as is common between Dakkaites. Maybe you should take your undefeated 5man squads of heavy bolter Marines or your holo-fielded Vypers there and teach those boys a lesson or two. I mean, you must get bored beating all those 12 year olds in your daddy's garage all the time and a breath of fresh air might do you some good.

as many oblits as I could fit with as many cult troops as I wanted in the army, or mixing some cult troops with raptors.

I was playing around with the codex a couple days ago, and it's especially hard to fit all the things you'd like into a 1500 points list. Basically you get two DP's, two squads of TS, two squads of champless Raptors and about 7 Obliterators. If you take Noise Marines with only SB's instead of TS you can get an 8th Obliterator. That might be the some of the best available from the book but it certainly isn't very interesting to play and doesn't seem flexible enough against all possible opponents. Obliterators are a good source of VPs now for certain units, and if the Lash of Submission can't cause havoc each turn the CSM army will be at a disadvantage.

Since I don't play Chaos Space Marines anymore, I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried to use the Lash a little bit more offensively and build a mostly assault orientated army out of the new Chaos. It might not be quite as powerful as Lashing for PC templates, but if it worked at all it could be a lot of fun.

Locally, I just don't see Lash being effective and I can't imagine an army being built around it. It took some time, but now I see many tourney style armies running around with Eldar RoW or LD10 Psychic Hoods.

But, if you play against a lot of non Psychic defense armies...

Obliterators still seem to be a very viable option. Terminators, Bikes and Obliterators appear to have synergy with chaos icons acting as teleport homers.

I've been to 1-2 GT's a year since they started.

How many exactly? I think 15 of them. Could be 16, if you count this really big RT days tournament back east a 'GT'. Hard to say.

How about you come to Utah instead? I'm harried enough playing 5 games at the GT's, I've never played any extra games at one. Well, the LV GT was an exception, they had the very fun doubles games on Friday but that was the first time I was able to get away in time for an early game. Taking a ard boyz list to a GT would be silly. US GT's are 1850/1750 points, not 1500 and not 2500.

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I know Yak told you to stop being rude, so why don't you give it a shot?