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Let's see...Fletchette launcher has 1/6 chance of taking out the fist before it hits. Basically, a power fist on the charge with chappie will get 0.5 glancing hits per charge on a devilfish with fletchetes.

Sigh. Ok I don't know what game you guys are playing, but this is what happens in mine.

First off, the power fists in assault marine squads aren't what will kill you.

It's the meltabombs with the Chaplain giving them effectively X number of attacks (whoever survives) with a re-roll to get that 6.

Against most Tau skimmers, once you get that close they can *never* get away...and meltabombs blow through vehicles like nobody's business.

A squad of 8 (or two) should be drawing alot of fire because even ONE meltabomb hit can stun you, and then...well, it's not a happy day. Of course, they aren't Eldar Falcons so they die just as easy as any other tank when glanced...the 5 re-roll helps, but only in the turn in which it's glancing. The next turn if you just got the gak stunned outta ya, yer gonna get blown up cause those stop working.

Yay! You can kill my power fist. But my meltabombs are all that matters against a mechanized Tau list, since assault marines can sweep through them PDQ.

Stelek wrote:If you think destroying Mech Tau is a challenge, hate to burst your bubble but it isn't.

I don't run Mech Tau for this reason. Here's a few more:

If you think you can take out a chaplain + assault marines with flechette launchers and not lose that vehicle...yeah, you need to play better players. 4-5 wounds vs marines isn't going to win you much.

Your HQ is meltagun bait, I'm not impressed.

Are you sure you have SMS? Look like drones with guns to me.
No Piranhas?
Tau 'stun me now, pen me later' vehicles aren't exactly survivable, ya know.

Or you need to play better mech tau players. my tanks all have every upgrade save the sensor spines and black sun filter. and since you brought it up.
1,850 VS khorne berserkers-lost 1 fish and the 4 pathfinders inside. he had 5 chaos marines left on the table between 3 squads.
blood angels-old dex killed off his chappy led terminator squad and death company with fletchettes. he managed to kill 2 devilfish etc...

its not impossible to beat but when i can move 12" can only every be hit on 6+ even if i have not moved from being stunned, am a vehicle so i get the fletchette rolls every turn because i am not locked in CC. CC themed armies always do poorly against me. in fact they usually spend most of the game chasing me as i shoot the crap outta of them or shred them with fletchettes. heavy shooty armies like the old iron warriors or necrons are where i have the trouble.

HQ melta gun bait?
oh look you killed a drone, no wait i have more...and a shield generator when they are gone...try again.

I started building the list in 3rd so there were no SMSs in the devilfish kits at the time but they are all treated as SMS since i re-wrote the list for 4th. i never use gun drones.

No, no pirahans, they may be fast but they are as fragile as land speeders, fish hulls require some heavy weapons firepower to get their attention. i also rarely get penned as i am always moving 6+ inches and if your 12+ inches away i get a hull down roll.

Sigh. Ok I don't know what game you guys are playing, but this is what happens in mine.

First off, the power fists in assault marine squads aren't what will kill you.

It's the meltabombs with the Chaplain giving them effectively X number of attacks (whoever survives) with a re-roll to get that 6.

Against most Tau skimmers, once you get that close they can *never* get away...and meltabombs blow through vehicles like nobody's business.

A squad of 8 (or two) should be drawing alot of fire because even ONE meltabomb hit can stun you, and then...well, it's not a happy day. Of course, they aren't Eldar Falcons so they die just as easy as any other tank when glanced...the 5 re-roll helps, but only in the turn in which it's glancing. The next turn if you just got the gak stunned outta ya, yer gonna get blown up cause those stop working.

Yay! You can kill my power fist. But my meltabombs are all that matters against a mechanized Tau list, since assault marines can sweep through them PDQ.

actually i usually get a glance 1, 2 or 4 and then move away 12 so they can keep trying to glance me as i whittle them down, even so even if i get a glance 3 they still need 6+ to even hit me.

As with the poster that started this topic. with proper use of tactics on the table a mech tau list is a fearsome thing to face unless you are necrons. assault based armies play to its strengths.

I agree with Stelek. Having a Chappy with a powerfist backed up with a 8-10 man assault squad w/ powerfist and meltabombs is definitely going to cause an effect on your skimmers. Just between the chaplain and the sgt you are looking at up to 10 PF attacks will rerolls to hit...and that is even before the meltabomb attacks come into play. Litanies of Hate helps immensely... but we are also looking at this in a vacuum. There are more things in a marine army that can be a threat to mech tau besides the assault marines. Looking at your picture your army has very little low AP weapons. Unless you are deploying your men out of the tanks, your actual firepower output is pretty weak. Especially, once the shaken and stunned results start piling up. My Chappy lead assault squad has very little trouble pounding on devilfish hulls. You are also making the assumption that my charges will always be hitting your front. It is possible to be able to get to the sides. Afterall, like Stelek said, once some of your tanks get stunned, it is very easy to deal with them.

Capt K

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/206732.page

So tell me why it's ok for litanies of hate work on vehicles but not goblet of spite. Both work by RaW, but for some reason one's accepted and the other's not.

-Leo037

Dunno. If someone that was playing me had the goblet of spite I'd let them use it vs. a vehicle. I see no real reason why not.

Capt K

So to wander back into the realm of General Broad Tactics, there IS such a thing and it has been done long before anyone here was alive. A great man once wrote a document (book? not by our definition) called the Art of War. Sun Tzu was the name it was attributed to. Many people would recognise it, but I wonder how many have read it cover to cover. If you have the chance, trust me, read it. You'll be a better 40k player from the experiance, and likley a little bit better of a person. 40K is 'simple' enough in the Tactics portion (that is compaired to WHF and LOTR games) that many things Tzu says have direct and immediate application to the game. I'll attempt to find my link and post it here for you all to check out, as well as some of the more relevent passages.

WHF has tactics?

I've read Sun Tzu. It's required reading for US military officers undergoing command school and TS training courses.

Stelek, then you know how easly applied his words are to this game. And how if a few 'lesser skilled' players would read and ponder them they'd be called 'n00bs' no longer.

Just leave out the sections about moral and attrition and the other bits of Taoist philosophy and you have a heft three pages to grind though.
The Art of War fits 40k like a size twelve shoehorned into some dora the explorer sneakers.

CaptKaruthors wrote:I agree with Stelek. Having a Chappy with a powerfist backed up with a 8-10 man assault squad w/ powerfist and meltabombs is definitely going to cause an effect on your skimmers. Just between the chaplain and the sgt you are looking at up to 10 PF attacks will rerolls to hit...and that is even before the meltabomb attacks come into play. Litanies of Hate helps immensely... but we are also looking at this in a vacuum. There are more things in a marine army that can be a threat to mech tau besides the assault marines. Looking at your picture your army has very little low AP weapons. Unless you are deploying your men out of the tanks, your actual firepower output is pretty weak. Especially, once the shaken and stunned results start piling up. My Chappy lead assault squad has very little trouble pounding on devilfish hulls. You are also making the assumption that my charges will always be hitting your front. It is possible to be able to get to the sides. Afterall, like Stelek said, once some of your tanks get stunned, it is very easy to deal with them.

Capt K

from experience it doesn't do as well as you think. the key is target saturation. with 8 tanks on the table, shooting, moving and hitting in CC a single chappy led squad isn't that scary. i've done this before both against khorn berserker armies and chappy led death company and terminator squads. the results were the same, you may kill a tank or 2 but the end result is that your going to get hammered in the process.

sometimes i disembark my guys and sometimes i do not, it depends on the situation. the tanks hit on 3s which make them just as effective as larger squads of troops that shoot worse. shooting matters little if you cannot kill me as i take a fw VP s in wounds off of you each turn. also with my movement i can ususally make you attack front or side armor. it still remains true in the years that i have been playing this list. CC armies do not do well against it like heavy weapon shooting armies do.

gdurant: *shrug* I'll accept that as a point of view untill I post a bunch of very specific examples.

from experience it doesn't do as well as you think. the key is target saturation. with 8 tanks on the table, shooting, moving and hitting in CC a single chappy led squad isn't that scary. i've done this before both against khorn berserker armies and chappy led death company and terminator squads. the results were the same, you may kill a tank or 2 but the end result is that your going to get hammered in the process.

sometimes i disembark my guys and sometimes i do not, it depends on the situation. the tanks hit on 3s which make them just as effective as larger squads of troops that shoot worse. shooting matters little if you cannot kill me as i take a fw VP s in wounds off of you each turn. also with my movement i can ususally make you attack front or side armor. it still remains true in the years that i have been playing this list. CC armies do not do well against it like heavy weapon shooting armies do.

I disagree. Also remember what I said. The situation is in a vacuum and doesn't reflect other factors. All I am saying is that from the pictures, the volume of fire that you have in your army doesn't seem to be as much as you boast considering most of the firepower in your army is on transports that are easily shaken...and I have never had a problem killing fishes with my assault squads. Rapid firing my army with 6-8 firewarriors isn't that scary (if anything it should be more scary for you since I play Templars). Having played some of the meanest Mech Tau lists, this one is not as scary. I'd be a little more concerned if you had more Fireknife suits. Meh.

Capt K