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I dont speak german, but here is a good source of confirmations direct from GW:

http://www.gw-fanworld.net/

Supposedly, it states:

the USRs ATSKNF, True Grit and Small Target are gone and Eternal Warrior and one called Weapon Expert in the German version are added.

Open topped vehicles don't get double hits by blasts and templates any more.

They say that the rules for difficult terrain tests have changed, but not how.

All jump troops can use deepstrike now.

No last man standing.

You always fall back in a straight line towards your own board edge.

Models falling back through the enemy or impassable terrain get killed.

Rallying in area terrain gives you +1 on Ld.

Positioning after combat is always D6 now.

Models that are in base to base at the begging of a combat, can attack even if there isn't a base to base situation anymore when they get to attack (according to their initiative).

Units under half strength suffer -1 Ld for pinning.

Minis have to use the bases they are delivered with, no bigger bases (though this still solves nothing. My eldar jetbikes came with 25mm hex flight bases for example) I see this rule being ignored consistently.

Hopefully one of the germans here can give us a full rundown of what that link says.

Minis have to use the bases they are delivered with, no bigger bases (though this still solves nothing. My eldar jetbikes came with 25mm hex flight bases for example) I see this rule being ignored consistently.

Thats a serious modelling change. I have several things on larger bases, for aesthetic reasons or the item represents something else so I used a large base to NOT be a cheaty git.

Can I quote you on the modeling forum HF?

Dont matter to me, just be sure to give the source material as a reference. This way if someone does speak german they can dispute it if need be.

(and boy, do I ever hope that it gets disputed, as this is an even more moronic move than what 4th edition had)

GW lacks consistency here. And yet make it a rule now?

Please....pull the wool over your own eyes, GW.

People are more discerning than you give them credit for. We aren't as blind and cud chewing sheep as you believe us to be.

They give you a plethora of differing bases and then tell you to use what it comes with.

Termies on 25 mm bases anyone?

This rule will only end in tears.

When I flicked through the 5th ed rulebook, it said if models are supplied with bases they must be glued on bases before used in a game. (so you couldn't have a terminator wandering around with no base)

It also says that some gamers like to mount models on larger scenic bases, but as this would affect the way models interact with the rules, you should check that your opponent is ok with it.

I can see most people being ok with models on larger bases.

Hellfury is correct with almost all of it. Addition:

You now get inv. saves against dangerous terrain

Pistols cannot shoot twice anymore

Gets Hot! is simplified

Poisoned weapons are more effective with creatures with higher Strength

You cannot consolidate in already engaged units

The negative LD modifier after a round of combat is determined by the inflicted wounds (like fantasy i suppose), outnumbering is related to "no retreat" wounds.

All walkers are one unit strength now

Units fleeing trough friendly units trigger a Ld test (panic)

IC cannot move into formation without joining them

IC that are not in a unit can be shot

Inv. Save vs perils of the warp, which doesn't autokill anyone anymore

MC are weapon experts (can shoot two weapons maybe?)

MCs are immune to pinning

Jetbikes are basically bikes with some jump infantry rules (cannot hover above terrain)

If a unit embarks or disembarks before the transport moves, it can only move 12"

Defensive Weapons are S4!

open-topped vehicles are not vulnerable to blast anymore

Alpha, Beta, Omega missions gone

And very much known stuff. Otherwise just ask!

Greets
Schepp himself

Anything on the missions? We played some V5 games with what looked like escalation in everything but name (HQ and two troops). If that was correct wondering if those missions are confirmed.

Schepp himself wrote:Hellfury is correct with almost all of it. Addition:

You cannot consolidate in already engaged units

And very much known stuff. Otherwise just ask!

Greets
Schepp himself

Ok, two questions:

With the above statement about consolidating into already engaged units, can a unit assault something, kill it/run it down, and then consolidate into a new, unengaged unit? I'd just like to confirm this last bit.

Second question: Is the Troops Only Scoring bit from the leaked rules still in the final round of 5th Ed or are other unit types scoring units still?

Thanks!

You cannot consolidate into any enemies at all, engaged or not.

Troops are the only scoring unit, but all units can constest objectives.

jfrazell wrote:Just a flippant semi - insult? What not even a flow chart? You're losing your gift Nurgly.

Because I'd get nastiness from people like you regardless of what I post. Might as well save myself the effort, you know?

I like your posts Nurglitch


ANYWAYS My GW store has the rulebook as of today so I would suggest you all check the local GWs to see if they have their copies yet

And yeah, dawn of war(semi-escalation) is in.

Nurglitch wrote:

jfrazell wrote:Just a flippant semi - insult? What not even a flow chart? You're losing your gift Nurgly.

Because I'd get nastiness from people like you regardless of what I post. Might as well save myself the effort, you know?

People like me? You started the attack, on a thread trying to confirm rumors.

Kallbrand wrote:

Troops are the only scoring unit, but all units can constest objectives.

Thanks for the answers!

Now that last bit is pretty interesting, I wonder how much that's going to change much of anything from 4th Ed's problem of people making armies out of everything BUT Troops most of the time. If you can use the other units to "Deny" objectives, and force the game to come down to VP's (assuming the missions are as they were in the leaked book, using VP's when there was a draw on objectives), then what's the net gain of making only Troops Scoring?

EDIT: Follow up question - Is it just "Troops" or is it only "Troops that are Infantry" as was rumored? Ie. Can armies that can take Bikes, Jetbikes, Vehicles, etc as troops still have those units count as scoring or is it the "Non Vehicle Troops" per the leaked rules?

EDIT: Follow up question #2 - Is the rule of "one model in the unit being within range to fire means all models with the same weapon in the unit may fire if they have LOS" true ala the leaked rules? (No, I don't have evil dirty thoughts of 6 Mobs of 30 Shoota Boyz, not at all).

voodoo -

as for Q1, my sources have this as any troop choice (otherwise it is impossible for certain existing builds to win - ravenwing and saim-hann for example)

Q2, I have no idea but I doubt it! (purely because it will lead to really ridiculous 'snaking' units, where the front man in a unit gets a bead on the target, while the back guy is 48" from the action and still gets his shot off with a 12" range gun...)

Q2: The german paper says it's if one model is in range, the whole model is. Didn't know that this was still doubtful, considered it pretty much confirmed.

To the missions: It just says that very much is changed...

The troops thing isn't mentioned at all.

Hope that helped.

Greets
Schepp himself

Chimera_Calvin:

Not so ridiculous as it seems: So far as I can tell, it's not unusual for modern infantry combat teams and squads to form up in a snaking line, particularly for moving through difficult terrain.

Couldn't agree more Nurglitch! (I know my airsoft team doesn't bunch up like that)

BUT if a model is out of range, why should they get to fire? Its a function of the game scale (whereby for example a shuriken catapult has a range that would equate to approx 20m).

IRL if the distance from the front man in a squad to the back man is 10m, they would all still be able to engage (as the engagement range on most rifles is about 100m and the maximum is about 300m).

In game, you could develop a situation where a 10 man guardian squad on 1" bases with a 2" separation between each base has more than 24" between the front and back men. This is twice the range of the gun being fired!

So why should the back man still get his shot?

This comes from the actual rulebook,

Which models can fire? - All models in the firing unit that have line of sight to at least one model in the target unit can fire.

Check range - Measure from each firer to the nearest visible model in the target unit. Any model that is found to be out of range of all the models he can see in the target unit misses automatically as his shots do not reach.

Any confirm on how blast weapons and templates work? Is it 2d6-BS or has that been modified? Is it the same for ordnance?

Quistis84 wrote:This comes from the actual rulebook,

Which models can fire? - All models in the firing unit that have line of sight to at least one model in the target unit can fire.

Check range - Measure from each firer to the nearest visible model in the target unit. Any model that is found to be out of range of all the models he can see in the target unit misses automatically as his shots do not reach.

Thanks for clearing that up, so no stupidity of being able to mitigate gun range issues.

(again from rulebook)

Blast weapons and ordnance scatter 2D6 minus BS

Barrage wespons, if they hit a target they cannot see, they scatter the full 2D6 (cannot be modified by BS)

Thanks Q!

2d6 take the highest and then minus BS or just 2d6 - BS?

2d6 - BS

I think I really like the way they are doing blasts, then. Lord knows its a solid improvement to my mind, and that's enough to be satisfied with.

Respectfully I disagree gritzgrin (if its as I am reading it), at least for BS3 types.

V3/V4-a sitting Leman Russ has direction + d6. So 33% chance of HIT with an average deviation of three inches for the remaining 66% with a max deviation of six inches.

V5 HIT-33%, the remaining average is three inches but the deviates out to nine inches. Guard just got worse, especially against vehicles (unless the center dot thingy no longer applies).

V4 Marine ML. 66% chance of hit with 33% disappearing
V5 Marine 33% chance to hit. 66% chance of an average of 2 inch deviation, with maximum 8 inch deviation. Thats not bad against troops, and decent against vehicles. I'd call that a wash.

Yeah, but the template just got a ton deadlier for the IG, and the tank a ton more survivable.

With respect-more deadly TO them as well.

More survivable I guess. But less effective. Combined with sit and shoot its a not so hot for me. That was the advantage of V3 and Lemans. Yes you had to sit and shoot, however, you had a good chance of causing casualties and an excellent chance of hitting vehicles. Not now.

All blast weapons scatter 2d6-BS, or if they miss they scatter?

Cause that just got a lot worse for most armies.

2d6-BS, for BS4 is an average scatter of 3". It used to be 3.5". But, they lost the 2/3rds odds to just hit.

For BS3, you're looking at a higher average scatter of 4" instead of 3".

For BS2, with looted tanks and the like, your average scatter is 5", with a max of 10". That's kind of ridiculous. Poor Shokk-attack mek. Such a nice model, but he's going to be utterly ineffective.

Flamer templates roll to hit, if they miss anything underneath gets hit on a 4+.