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Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Stelek, I realize some of the posts have been highly critical, but your attitude is patronizing and dismissive across your topics. People point out legitimate concerns and you respond with "here's how I win" or "I meant it to lose- it's a fun list!". As dogma asks, why even bother posting? If you want hollow platitudes, look elsewhere.

To take your example in combat. With your numbers, you lose horribly that round thanks to ranks. But your math is wrong. 2 10 man bat units with two vamps manage to combine flank charge a unit of 25 swordsmen (good luck not getting shot or magic'ed on the way...). Unit starts with 5 CR, you start with 0. Against a 100mm frontage you can get 2 vamps and 3 bats. So 4 vamps and 6 bats. Vamps score 7 wounds and bats score 0-1. That leaves maybe 4 attacks back, all aiming at bats, so 1-2 wounds back. So in a best case scenario, you win by 2 and possibly lose by 1. If a detachment countercharges or they can use a unit to guard a flank or tie you up with some cav, etc. Oh, and that's how many of your points matched against maybe 150 of his? See the problem?

If you don't like fantasy, don't play it. I don't advocate herohammer or whatever term you want to throw around. I advocate not being an idiot. Idiocy is doing something you don't like as a hobby. I am sure there are plenty of games out there that don't bore you. Or maybe there aren't (since you already claim to be something of a card shark and chessmaster) and you should spend your time doing something you might like. Maybe sports? With your record of success, you seem like a real winner. Maybe you could even compete in the Olympics with some practice!

Until then, expect criticism of bad lists in public game forums dedicated to army list critique.

-James
 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts SAS






So yea the swordsmen win ? ?

Yea you got owned btw.

Let no man glory in the greatness of his mind,
but rather keep watch o'er his wits.
Cautious and silent let him enter a dwelling;
to the heedful comes seldom harm,
for none can find a more faithful friend
than the wealth of mother wit.

17th in World Wide War. (1st in VPs)

Hydra Dominatus 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

I've clearly said it's a flank charge and a front charge.

Maybe if all of the mathhammer directed my way incorporated that in the slightest...

I was not aware being a 'flying unit' made you skirmishers.

If it is, you don't even have the numbers right, jmurhp. You seem to know the rules better than I, so why aren't there more bats?

Bats score 0-1 wounds against whom? T5 creatures? They have 2 attacks each.

I can say when I'm wrong, and I've done so several times--but between you and my new pet I'm not sure who is more wrong about their mathhammer facts.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Now I understand, having never run flying units before and rarely faced 'units' of flyers.

Page 69. Flying units are skirmishers, US1, and characters cannot join them.

So, the list is el crappo.

At least now I understand why.

Thanks for helping me understand with a rules quote.

A certain bret air cav player would get my foot up his ass, but it's my own fault for not knowing.

   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Peg Knights are flying cavalry and follow different rules from normal flyers. They have US 2.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

But they are skirmishers so even with US 5 billion they won't take away ranks.

Thus, the lameness. lol

   
Made in us
Martial Arts SAS






You didnt even answer all his question's.

And you got proved wrong.

Once again you left out some parts.

Try this list maybe your lose for once.

Let no man glory in the greatness of his mind,
but rather keep watch o'er his wits.
Cautious and silent let him enter a dwelling;
to the heedful comes seldom harm,
for none can find a more faithful friend
than the wealth of mother wit.

17th in World Wide War. (1st in VPs)

Hydra Dominatus 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Welcome to ignore.

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Bats don't score kills because they are WS 3 S3 and so need 4s and 4s with swordsmen then swordsmen get a 4+ save (or 5+ on flank). So 6 bats you are looking at maybe 1.5 wounds before saves. After saves that's .75 if bats on front or 1 on the flank. Hence the 0-1 kills.

Bret flying cav have a special rule called "Flying Cavalry" that make them US 2. Likewise, flying monsters use the wounds to calculate US, so a dragon *can* negate ranks.

The rules are very important to WHFB. It is easy to get overwhelmed at first. But, that is also why it is important to listen to suggestions from more veteran players who likely know things that you may have missed or not seen yet as a newer player. Rules quotes rarely come out for such basic rules; rather they tend to be reserved for YMDC or thorny interpretations. Most WHFB rules are actually very straightforward and clear.

WHFB also tends to be about the RnF blocks except for a vey few lists. So I would seriously reconsider the financial and time investment required if this turns you off to the game.

-James
 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts SAS






So which army are you going to do ? ? the Craine one or the Bat army ? ?

There both not that amazing ? which one shall you choose ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/06/06 20:42:40


Let no man glory in the greatness of his mind,
but rather keep watch o'er his wits.
Cautious and silent let him enter a dwelling;
to the heedful comes seldom harm,
for none can find a more faithful friend
than the wealth of mother wit.

17th in World Wide War. (1st in VPs)

Hydra Dominatus 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

I'm not a new player. I find it humorous you think I'm a newbie by missing a rule from a unit type I've never run before--I've been playing since the RT days, ya know...1st edition.

I do know the rules for the bret flying cavalry, but they cannot negate ranks so who cares you know cavalry = US2. I think most people do, cavalry is pretty common.

Since the discussion was about me negating ranks with units that cannot, and I said I didn't realize this because no one runs flying units as main combat units...what's the point about the dragon? Oh right, rubbing my face in it. Gotcha, real helpful.

I have about 20 armies in total, so the financial and time investment isn't what turns me off. How many do you have?

I don't run blockhammer armies, and I don't find the rules to be overwhelming. They're really quite clear and simple. I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on what a 'basic rule' is. It's buried deep in the flyers section. If you aren't running flying units (I never have) you'd never even get that far in the flying rules section. Who cares if 3 bats are skirmishers against war machine crews? Let me count the ranks...right, more amusing anecdotes.

Now if I was to play in tournaments again, then I'd read the rules alot more carefully than I do for casual play.

Your math seems off by the way, 12 attacks=6 hits, 3 wounds before saves. Maybe you should read the army books, and I should read the rulebook, a little better, before commenting. Oh right, I was not the one commenting...

Anyway, nice attitude you have. If I was dirt under your shoe I don't think you could talk down to me any more than you just did.

Grats.

   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Stelek wrote:But they are skirmishers so even with US 5 billion they won't take away ranks.

Thus, the lameness. lol


I'm not certain of this as I don't have the bret book, but it seems likely that flying cavalry do in fact ignore ranks. Otherwise there would be little reason to fear the RAF.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






.................................... Searching for Iscandar

Hmmm that truly sucks then. Can't bust that guys balls if he's playing...legally. LOL

   
Made in fi
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






Espoo - Finland

dogma wrote:
Stelek wrote:But they are skirmishers so even with US 5 billion they won't take away ranks.

Thus, the lameness. lol


I'm not certain of this as I don't have the bret book, but it seems likely that flying cavalry do in fact ignore ranks. Otherwise there would be little reason to fear the RAF.


Pegasus knights are skirmishers (altough they do have us2 & cavalry save bonus due to the flying cav rule), so they don't negate ranks. They're still very good, though, especially in large numbers as for a fast "support" unit they are relatively durable and have decent attacks especially if you compare them to other armies support units.

...silence 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Stelek, you really need to get your e-peen under control. Nobody cares how many armies you have. I posted about dragons, fliers, etc. because I thought you were a new player. Your posts certainly did not indicate an experienced WHFB player since you seemed to be unfamiliar with rules on fliers, flying cav, skirmishers and ranks, etc. I find it odd that a player who has played since RT has never had extensive interactions with flier rules that have basically not changed since 6th ed. But perhaps you took a hiatus- who knows? I am sorry I confused you with the 6 bats thing- I meant 6 bat attacks- 3 bases. But you are correct- with 6 bases you would double the numbers.

If I wanted to talk down to you or flame you, you would know it (and would expect such behavior to be reported). Instead, I tried to offer some information and suggestions. Don't always assume everyone trying to help you learn thinks you are stupid. I would caution against a reactionary attitude and am not really sure why you so quickly get into rants based on some real or perceived slight. This topic has devolved badly and I will not bother you further as I have no interest in continuing this discussion (feel free to have a last word, however; I am not trying to stifle any response- it would be ineffective even if I desired to!). Based on the threads I have seen you post, it appears that posting in any further AL topics you author will be equally fruitless, so I will avoid those as well. I do wish you luck in the game, however, and sincerely hope you treat other gamers with more respect and decorum than you show in anonymous internet game forums.

-James
 
   
Made in us
Martial Arts SAS






Not like your attitude is any better Stelek . your a prick pretty much all you do is talk down to every one and think your god if i get in trouble for this o well. This is a Math game and a thinking game like chess. If your so good in 40k( I know this WHFB) the most AMAZING game ever then play pure grey knight and get a 2nd or 1st in GT or something.

I'm tried of you in all your post all you do is Troll as well.

I won't post here again and i just want you to know what i think. what ever.

I'm just sticking up for the fact that he bashes every one that has a better idea or a different way and he thinks there stupid or wrong.

Very sorry if i offened anyone on dakka. My bad

Just expressing my thoughts on a forum.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/06/08 05:04:53


Let no man glory in the greatness of his mind,
but rather keep watch o'er his wits.
Cautious and silent let him enter a dwelling;
to the heedful comes seldom harm,
for none can find a more faithful friend
than the wealth of mother wit.

17th in World Wide War. (1st in VPs)

Hydra Dominatus 
   
 
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