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Hmmm I dunno, 3+ cover and 4+ fnp is a serious pita to deal with on 60 wounds of orks.

Especially these days where lots of lascannons is uncommon, and meltaguns only fire once...

I like that ork army you describe. Very unwieldy, and bombardment weapons destroy lootas.

Orcs have the ability to do just about anything any army can do right now. Just not as well as the others. i have played around with an orc bike army in response to my friend making ravenwing/deathwing. I can't forsee "OrcWing" to be a worthwhile army to build in the least. First, your guns...18" range, str 5 AP 5 Assult 3. First glance looks decent enough, but with a 2 BS you need 5+ to hit. out of 8 dice, you will hit about 1-2 times per phase. not that good. 440 pts for the 2 squads with pain boys. that is 235 for 30 boys, with Nob with PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour. bikes just are not worth it, especially nob bikers.

therandom007 wrote:Orcs have the ability to do just about anything any army can do right now. Just not as well as the others. i have played around with an orc bike army in response to my friend making ravenwing/deathwing. I can't forsee "OrcWing" to be a worthwhile army to build in the least. First, your guns...18" range, str 5 AP 5 Assult 3. First glance looks decent enough, but with a 2 BS you need 5+ to hit. out of 8 dice, you will hit about 1-2 times per phase. not that good. 440 pts for the 2 squads with pain boys. that is 235 for 30 boys, with Nob with PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour. bikes just are not worth it, especially nob bikers.

Doing something wrong then, mate.

therandom007 wrote:Orcs have the ability to do just about anything any army can do right now. Just not as well as the others. i have played around with an orc bike army in response to my friend making ravenwing/deathwing. I can't forsee "OrcWing" to be a worthwhile army to build in the least. First, your guns...18" range, str 5 AP 5 Assult 3. First glance looks decent enough, but with a 2 BS you need 5+ to hit. out of 8 dice, you will hit about 1-2 times per phase. not that good. 440 pts for the 2 squads with pain boys. that is 235 for 30 boys, with Nob with PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour. bikes just are not worth it, especially nob bikers.

I'm a little confused on a few things. 18" guns, on 12" moving platforms is a 30" reach, not that bad. Also 18" guns on a unit that want to close with most enemies doesn't seem like a problem either, your trying to get into their face, no reason to hang back. Second, nine models firing Twin linked Dakkaguns is 27 shots which is about 15 hits. Against T4 thats 10 wounds. Thats a little better than your 1-2.

As for the 235 for 30 boys, yes its a good deal, yes you can take 180 of them for only 1410 points. However, I've said it once (not in this thread though), I'll say it again. I hate running horde armies. 40K without vehicles (bikes even though they have infantry stats are still vehicles) IMO is not worth playing. Full Stop. Every army I've ever created (except necrons) has been loaded with vehicles/armor of some sort. I run Mech Tau (Two hammerheads, three devilfish, 2 pirahna), Ork KOS (two battlewagons, 5 trukks, 5 buggies, 4 dethcopters, 8 old school ork bikers, 2 looted vehicles), Emperors Children (Defiler, two rhinos, two preditors, 1 dread, six bikers). My SW army that I'm currently starting has 2 vindies, 2 landspeeders, 2 dreads, 4 drop pods. If I'm going to play an all infantry army, I'll play fantasy. Much better rule set.

Now thats just me, which is why as you can guess the Ork Nob biker army has such great appeal to me right now. Its 100% motorized fun. Not a single model on foot. Thats just how war in the 41st millennium should be.

So the trick is to find a list that uses vehicles, is fun, and is fairly competitive. Even if the 30 Nob bikes army doesn't do well on its own, it will help fill out my other 2500 points of KOS Orks to make a fun addition to any Apoc game.

therandom007 wrote: bikes just are not worth it, especially nob bikers.

Have you tried out a maxed mob of nob bikers? I have, thrice. They always have performed well for me. I need to get 7 more so i can make a second unit.

Doh, did I get those dreads to John for you? lol I don't remember.

Nope

therandom007 wrote:Orcs have the ability to do just about anything any army can do right now. Just not as well as the others. i have played around with an orc bike army in response to my friend making ravenwing/deathwing. I can't forsee "OrcWing" to be a worthwhile army to build in the least. First, your guns...18" range, str 5 AP 5 Assult 3. First glance looks decent enough, but with a 2 BS you need 5+ to hit. out of 8 dice, you will hit about 1-2 times per phase. not that good. 440 pts for the 2 squads with pain boys. that is 235 for 30 boys, with Nob with PK, bosspole, 'eavy armour. bikes just are not worth it, especially nob bikers.

Take pity on the noob He has less than 10 games under his belt.

I'm whupping ass with the all-bike list... and I'm no tactical genius. Definitely a worthwhile army to build/play. The amount of firepower whittles down anything T4 or less, because the number of wounds you can lay down makes even 2+ saves somewhat unreliable.

Remind me to pull them out for him whenever we have lunch this week.

Jayden63 wrote:I had that thought too. But as I like also having friends I think I'll just go with 4-5 unique guys out of the 8 in the mob.

Nob w/Pclaw
Nob w/Pclaw and combi weapon (flamer)
Nob w/boss pole
Nob w/Waagh banner
Painboy

Don't forget the Ammo Runt. Buy it, but don't use it. Now you have almost everyone unique.

I'm sure that its going to do well. Nob bikers are solid. Its straight forward, small and simple. You won't win em all, but you weren't expecting to.

I made a rule to limit myself to 1 nob unit per independent character. Leadership 7 even with a bosspole is totally dodgy. Either you blow the roll on turn one and lose the unit, or you blow it later and risk getting herded off the table by your opponent.

Or you never fail that test twice in a row, and you laugh at my overly conservative philosophy.

And you are going to HATE capture and control!

Hmm... I just noticed that my points excel program lied to me. The list is really 1735 points, and I get two additional Nob bikers on the main two units. That leaves 15 points for combi something or others to spread around to make it a GT 1750 list.

Kinda cool.

Buy army builder.

Hurr.

Stelek wrote:Buy army builder.
Hurr.

Here here! AB is totally worth the money.

Shep wrote:Leadership 7 even with a bosspole is totally dodgy.

And you are going to HATE capture and control!

I'd definitely run them with Warboss on a bike to get that Ld9.

Regarding C&C, what's that line "If all your models are dead, I win"?

Shep wrote:I made a rule to limit myself to 1 nob unit per independent character. Leadership 7 even with a bosspole is totally dodgy. Either you blow the roll on turn one and lose the unit, or you blow it later and risk getting herded off the table by your opponent.

That is the scariest thing about this list. One bad tank shock or pinning check or whatever, and POOF, your unit is GONE. Gives me the willies just thinkin about it. It's the same reason I don't run Chaos Terminators anymore. If it aint fearless, I don't bring it.

Well the warboss is LD 9 and since the unit has a boss pole thats LD 9 with a reroll. the shot on the reroll gets armor and FNP so it shouldn't actually cap a guy.

The lone biker unit is stuck at LD 7 with a reroll (8 until I loose one model). Thats the iffy one. But since fearless and LD10 are only for certain Marines and Necrons anymore, low LD is just something I have to live with. My Tau have been doing it for years.

Jayden63 wrote:Well the warboss is LD 9 and since the unit has a boss pole thats LD 9 with a reroll. the shot on the reroll gets armor and FNP so it shouldn't actually cap a guy.

The lone biker unit is stuck at LD 7 with a reroll (8 until I loose one model). Thats the iffy one. But since fearless and LD10 are only for certain Marines and Necrons anymore, low LD is just something I have to live with. My Tau have been doing it for years.

Tau don't have 500+ point units

We aren't talking about 8 with a re-roll or 9, we are talking about a coin toss, followed by another coin toss. You ever seen tails come up twice in a row?

It's not a huge criticism of the list. It's just a personal rule of mine. I don't like to lose a game based on some really oddball thing like that. I get cranky when that happens, and it ends up decreasing enjoyment for me and for my opponent.

This list can be leadership 9 with a re-roll x2, and then sprinkled with shoota boys. They'll be fearless for quite some time. And they can focus on objectives while the nobs are free to explore the art of waagh without the confines of objective capture. Specifically in capture and control.

But I understand the intent of this list. You want 3 fast hard units, for fun... at it will be fun

Know whats stupid scary. In order to bring these units below half strength so they can't rally when the LD is blown requires 294 bolter shots. Thats 49 marines shooting once each turn for 6 turns.

Thats just wrong. I know that doesn't count for multiple hit weapons like flamers or pie plates. But thats just to take one unit below half. There are still two more.

Ugh, my head gets dizzy just thinking about it.

this list only has 2 scoring units. thats got to be the biggest problem i see. your kill points are awsome. I am asumeing that you are relying on your power claws, for anti armor? that could also be a problem for you if facing tank heavy army's. I also saw a similar list played against a nidzilla list, and the nids trashed him, his 5 carnefexes just shot the hell out the bikers and because of the lower model count he suffered large percent loss on the first turn. The list wasn't exactly the same but close. Just my thoughts

Jayden63 wrote:Know whats stupid scary. In order to bring these units below half strength so they can't rally when the LD is blown requires 294 bolter shots. Thats 49 marines shooting once each turn for 6 turns.

Thats just wrong. I know that doesn't count for multiple hit weapons like flamers or pie plates. But thats just to take one unit below half. There are still two more.

Ugh, my head gets dizzy just thinking about it.

Or one tank shock and an escort off the board.

It's a powerful unit, but you don't have to kill it to neutralize it.

Jayden63 wrote:Know whats stupid scary. In order to bring these units below half strength so they can't rally when the LD is blown requires 294 bolter shots. Thats 49 marines shooting once each turn for 6 turns.

Thats just wrong. I know that doesn't count for multiple hit weapons like flamers or pie plates. But thats just to take one unit below half. There are still two more.

Ugh, my head gets dizzy just thinking about it.

Take an army like Steleks Sternguard Drop Pod force, except change all the combi-melta's to combi Plasmas and suddenly with 16 strength 7 AP 2 shots 8in the opening turn you are in danger of losing almost half a unit to that first deepstrike from a single sternguard force. When you pile them up in close proximity that's massive chunks of your force wiped out on the opening turn...

I like how you've done your maths here, it's actually quite amusing in that regards.

How's the army coming along anyways?

Auretious Taak.

Actually I loose umm... None.

Math says it will only inflict 9 wounds. I put one hit on each of the nobs, then take my 4+ cover save (generated by the bike), and inflict 4.5 wounds spread out over 4 models, all of which have 2 wounds each. On my turn, I charge into the sternguard unit and wipe them out.

Thanks for the memories.

Ork shooting says 16.5 hits, 10.89 wounds, 3.5 dead from shooting.

Or I can just charge in.

At I4 35 attacks, 23.1 Hits, 15 wounds, 5 dead. At I1, I add in 14 powerclaw attacks and wipe out what is left. In fact, having a perfect set up, I'd double charge. I'd run the Warboss 6 S10 attacks into the drop pod... killing it, and let the nobs take out the sternguard.

8 sternguard attacking back at I4 is 16 attacks, 8 hits, 2.5 wounds, .5 unsaved. I don't even loose another Nob.

As for how the army is going. Slow. I'm only getting in effect one unit a month. I've got the warboss, one nob w/pclaw, and the painboy under construction at the moment.

Stelek wrote:Hmmm I dunno, 3+ cover and 4+ fnp is a serious pita to deal with on 60 wounds of orks.

Especially these days where lots of lascannons is uncommon, and meltaguns only fire once...

I like that ork army you describe. Very unwieldy, and bombardment weapons destroy lootas.

My question here is, are you getting the 3+ Cover from the bikes? if so, how are you getting that 3+ save. I am a noob to this game, but i have read the erratas for the orc codex, and exhaust cloud gives you a 4+ CS.

Bikes that turbo boost (move 24") get a 3+ cover save as per the turbo boosting rules.

okay, just making sure, i just made my first warboss biker the otherday, he looks alright for the most part. but i think i do agree with you, horde armies suck to play. i have play a few more games since my last post, and i have realized how much it sucks to play a horde army.

Jayden63 wrote:Actually I loose umm... None.

Math says it will only inflict 9 wounds. I put one hit on each of the nobs, then take my 4+ cover save (generated by the bike), and inflict 4.5 wounds spread out over 4 models, all of which have 2 wounds each. On my turn, I charge into the sternguard unit and wipe them out.

Thanks for the memories.

Ork shooting says 16.5 hits, 10.89 wounds, 3.5 dead from shooting.

Or I can just charge in.

At I4 35 attacks, 23.1 Hits, 15 wounds, 5 dead. At I1, I add in 14 powerclaw attacks and wipe out what is left. In fact, having a perfect set up, I'd double charge. I'd run the Warboss 6 S10 attacks into the drop pod... killing it, and let the nobs take out the sternguard.

8 sternguard attacking back at I4 is 16 attacks, 8 hits, 2.5 wounds, .5 unsaved. I don't even loose another Nob.

As for how the army is going. Slow. I'm only getting in effect one unit a month. I've got the warboss, one nob w/pclaw, and the painboy under construction at the moment.

My bad, I forgot they are all armed differently so you can actually do that, highly amusing to tell the truth. No probs on the memories.

Are you playing any games with the list at least? Sub the army, find people who are cool enough to do that and get some games in and let us know how the force is coming along tactics wise. This Ork Biker list and the one that had had like 60 standard bikers in it where the guy would only take Nobz Bikers if it didn't detract from his entire army spaced out in one massive unit coherency to circle the board, lol, fun concept, one massive donut around the enemy, lol.

1 unit a month isn't too bad, I brought the first 1,000 odd points of my CSM Fabius Bile Force and it won't get built for quite some time yet unfortunately. Gonna be amusing, still haven't sorted out exactly what I'm getting in the entire army but still...It is tempting to max out on Fabius Bile and pure Enhanced CSM's just so as that once in a lifetime game comes along where every single Enhanced CSM unit rolls a 1 to start and I then get to make an armour save for the entire army barring Bile just to see the army die BEFORE the game begins, yeah...THAT would be the most hilarious thing ever. In a Grand Tournament setting, lol.

Apologies for slightly hi-jacking the thread.

What are you painting the Boyz as? Colours? Any cool conversions?

Auretious Taak.

P.S. Nid Warrior Devourer spam list could actually REALLY hurt this list. I know the Deathspitter spam list of 45 warriors with deathspitter and rending claws is like 1260 odd pts, throw in some Without Number gaunts and damn that could hurt...

I am impressed and glad to see someone else running a similar power Squad!

Evil, evil list. Where else can you get such firepower for a grand total of <30 models?

Stelek wrote:Oh yeah...

Besides, who orders from GW?

lol

The people we actually buy from.

*runs off ranting about Ebay*

Love this list. I mainly play BA and just tossed my black reach orcs and some others together and got 1500 pts. Looking at this list though I may need to rework mine and get some more bikes casue damn.....that looks good.