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There is no basis for that in the rules. Remember there is another vehicle behind the tank shocking vehicle.

G

The undefined situation is if the moving tank stopped over part of the unit and the tank shocked unit passed its morale check. If it ended up covering the entire unit, then even if every other direction was blocked off, they could just be moved out of the way in the direction in which the tank came. After all, tank shocked units which pass their morale check are only moved if the tank ends up on top of them, at which point the 1" rule is already out the window.

So, you'd have get all of the following set up: you have the three sides around the unit blocked off; you have your tank in position; you declare just enough distance to move over part of the enemy unit; there's not enough room to squeeze everyone into the remaining space.

If you've managed to do all of that, you've created a situation not covered by the rules. You may as well just allow that portion of the unit to move out of coherency or allow the covered portion to drag the uncovered portion out along with them.

Green Blow Fly wrote:There is no basis for that in the rules. Remember there is another vehicle behind the tank shocking vehicle.

G

Not until after the first tank finishes tank shocking, there isn't. Especially not if you're actually following the tank shock rules.

Edit: Just to clarify, units get moved one at a time, and that would prevent having a tank from a different unit do the tailgating. But even if you have a tank squadron, my understanding is that each model is supposed to move one at a time.

"If you've managed to do all of that, you've created a situation not covered by the rules."

I agree with that.

: )

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:There is no basis for that in the rules. Remember there is another vehicle behind the tank shocking vehicle.

"If some models in the unit would end up underneath the vehicle(no difference whether falling back or not), models must me moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherancy."

As noted, units move one at a time. For the Rhino to move in and tank shock the unit, there has to be some space behind it. The unit pops out behind it if there’s nowhere else to go. Or it could pop out on the other side of one of the other blocking vehicles. The commandment is simply to move them “out of the way by the shortest distance”, which could potentially mean moving them right over another blocking unit or piece of narrow impassible terrain.

Is it realistic? No, not necessarily.
Is it clearly the meaning and intent of the rule that the unit escape somehow, and that it be impossible to run over a unit and instantly kill it? Yes, IMO.

Might be easiest to do with Tau/Eldar Skimmer tanks. Make your box, then drop a Wave Serpent down in the middle.

Mannahnin wrote:As noted, units move one at a time. For the Rhino to move in and tank shock the unit, there has to be some space behind it. The unit pops out behind it if there’s nowhere else to go. Or it could pop out on the other side of one of the other blocking vehicles. The commandment is simply to move them “out of the way by the shortest distance”, which could potentially mean moving them right over another blocking unit or piece of narrow impassible terrain.

there, we can officially put this to bed as this is the one hole in your maneuver, GBF. You physically cannot have a tank tank shocking the unit, AND a second tank behind it at the same time.

Don't misunderstand me, we can never have too much outside the box thinking and I enjoy the creativity it requires for this sort of tactics. Keep looking for new options, and remember; there was a time when the tank shock and flame tactic was considered an unusual usage of the rules.

Actually that is a stretch. Hee! That was a pun.

G

Okay I have had the opportunity to read the rulebook. The two main rules to observe are Tank Shock and Trapped. In this situation if the enemy unit is tank shocked and fail their morale check then they must immediately fall back. If the enemy unit cannot perform a full fallback move without doubling back they are destroyed, as would be the case here due to the first two vehicles forming a V.

Also the rules for Tank Shock do not explicitly state the enemy unit can move underneath the vehicle tank shocking them.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote: If the enemy unit cannot perform a full fallback move without doubling back they are destroyed,

Which still only applies if they are Falling Back.

If they don't Fall Back, they are simply moved out of the way.

And as has already been pointed out, if there is nowhere for them to move, you're simply going to have to figure out what to do with them for yourself, because the rules don't cover it.

You're not going to get a different answer, other than the slightly dubious 'move them under the tank' (which is at least a solution... just not one that everyone will agree is the right one). The rules simply didn't anticipate a situation where the unit being shocked has nowhere to go to get out of the way... and honestly, having it actually happen on the table is extremely unlikely. The example you gave at the start of the thread certainly doesn't appear to accomplish it, as it requires you to move two vehicles at once.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Okay I have had the opportunity to read the rulebook. The two main rules to observe are Tank Shock and Trapped. In this situation if the enemy unit is tank shocked and fail their morale check then they must immediately fall back. If the enemy unit cannot perform a full fallback move without doubling back they are destroyed, as would be the case here due to the first two vehicles forming a V.

First, I'd like to direct your attention to page 11 of the BRB, where the rules explain movement. The wording is a bit muddled, but the end result is that units are moved one at a time. Your two vehicles CANNOT move in a V formation as you describe because they must be moved individually.

Also the rules for Tank Shock do not explicitly state the enemy unit can move underneath the vehicle tank shocking them.

G

Page 68, second column, paragraph three, the paragraph beginning "If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up ..." Whether they pass the morale check or not, if you cover the entire unit, the models are moved out of the way without considering the tank shocking model. You may note the diagramn on the bottom of the page which illustrates several models which are moved THROUGH the tank shocking model.

The only undefined part of this scenario is when the tank ends its movement covering part of the unit and there isn't enough room for those models. There's just as much support for saying that the tank shocked unit should be destroyed as there is to say that the tank shocking unit (your tank) should be destroyed because there's no room for it to complete its tank shock. That is to say, there's absolutely no support.

As has been pointed out you could do this using impassable terrain.

G

If you're implying that you can again destroy enemy units using impassable terrain, you'd be wrong again.

Once again, there is no rule in the book that would imply that the tank shocked unit would be destroyed. It doesnt matter WHAT is in the way hampering the shocked units movement. Tanks, impassable terrain, piles of dice, delicious cookies, Jimmy Hendrix, ect....

If the shocked unit makes its morale check, it lives, period. Figure out where to place it.

Edited by modquisition to get thread on track.

Edited by modquisition to get thread on track.

The way I read the rules if a squad is forced to fall back and has to double back they are destroyed. This is going to happen if they fail their morale check since the first two vehicles are in a V... which I must say the movement rules in no way prevent anyone from forming a V with their vehicles.

G

Ladies, ladies, you're both beautiful!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Edited by modquisition to get thread on track.

Modquisition
Gentlemen, lets keep it to the topic and avoid commentary that could be considered trolling. Further posts in similar manner may result in disciplinary proceedings.

AKA:



Modquisition off.

Sorry Fraz! I hope you don't mind if I call you Fraz.

: )

G

As noted, Trapped only applies if a unit fails its Morale test and is thus Falling back. There is no way to destroy a unit by Tank Shock if it doesn't Fall Back.

Just don't call me late for dinner GBF.

Mannahnin wrote:As noted, Trapped only applies if a unit fails its Morale test and is thus Falling back. There is no way to destroy a unit by Tank Shock if it doesn't Fall Back.

Agreed.

Frazzled wrote:Just don't call me late for dinner GBF.

How about hungry?

G