Deamonhunter and Witchhunter Force Weapons

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**NeoMaul**

Ghaz wrote:No, GW did not 'forget' the force weapons. The FAQ clearly covers everything, even though it's in the Dak Angels FAQ. It's you who just does not get it. Intentions are like codices. Once there's a new one on a subject, the old one is utterly worthless. You can go on and on all you like how it was GW's intentions years ago that all force weapons would have been the same no matter what the army, but it is absolutely pointless. It was GW's 'intention' in 2nd edition that Terminators got a 3+ save on 2D6. Does that mean I have a valid argument now that GW just 'forgot' to put that in the current codex? No. GW's intentions are crystal clear. As of right here and right now Daemonhunter and Witch Hunter force weapons do indeed work differently than those used by Space Marines. Any arguments based on GW's 'past intentions' are nothing but a waste of time.

NeoMaul wrote:Final arbiter? This forum's title is 'You make da call'. I am making da call.

No, you're not 'making da call', you're making up excuses.

Basically what your saying here is, It's a waste of time to discuss rule interpretations in any way that doesn't coincide with your preferred play style (RAW).

**Centurian99**

NeoMaul wrote:
Basically what your saying here is, It's a waste of time to discuss rule interpretations in any way that doesn't coincide with your preferred play style (RAW).

No, its a waste of time to try and argue RAI, because the other party can simply say, "I disagree" and you can't respond to it. I suggest you read the URL below.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/How_to_Have_an_Intelligent_Rules_Debate

**Ghaz**

It's a waste of time because you have absolutely no idea that they intended is anything other than what was written. You're trying to pass off the way YOU want the rules to be as the way GW intended them to be. Unless you're the Amazing Kreskin, you don't know that they intended anything other than what they wrote.

**NeoMaul**

As I have said before, I agree that I have no idea what GW intends. I was never trying to "win" a RAW debate with RAI. I was never trying to tell you how to play your game and I never disagreed with DH/WH force weapons being 'special' under RAW.

I did make an argument for how to handle the issue if you play RAI. I do not think that is a waste of time. If your discussing RAI it doesn't mean your claiming to be psychic, you can do your best to guess based on the surrounding rules. And if you can provide evidence then all the better.

If someone is arguing RAI they aren't claiming to be psychic, they are just saying "I think its likely they intended this because of such and such evidence". For people who play RAI that can be interesting to know.

**Ghaz**

And again, RAI is nothing more than 'because I want it that way'. You have no proof that what was written is not what was intended.

NeoMaul wrote:If someone is arguing RAI they aren't claiming to be psychic, they are just saying "I think its likely they intended this because of such and such evidence".

Yes, you are trying to claim you're psychic. You have no idea that the RAW is not what was intended. None whatsoever.

**don_mondo**

NeoMaul wrote:

You missed my point. I meant GW ignored/forgot/missed FAQ' ing the DH/WH force weapon and as a result you get to use it as slain outright.

GW never made a 'conscious' decision to make the DH/WH force weapon different from the SM one, it just happened to be that way because the DH/WH codices are old and their FAQs are lacking.

You're the one missing the point. Maybe GW made a conscious decision that it did not need to be FAQed because DH Force Weapons do indeed work differently from regular Force Weapons. I wasn't there when tehe DH FAQ was discussed amongst the studio staff. Were you? If not, then there is no way in Hades you can say one way or the other what their intent was. Did they forget it or did they decide it didn't need to be mentioned since the rule is obviously clear? After all, GW has made it clear in the past that slain outright is indeed different from Instant Death (which you seem to be ignoring in YOUR intent argument). So quit trying to argue RAI when you have no idea what their intent was or wasn't.
And yes, it IS a waste of time unless you're actually asking them what their intent was.

**bryantsbears**

One thing to note:

A Nemesis Force Weapon is only truly a force weapon in the "instant death after psychic check" in the hands of a Grand Master, per page 18 of the codex.

**Spetulhu**

As long as DH/WH have to buy outdated equipment at outrageous prices I see no problem in getting a better Force Weapon. It's quite an insignificant bonus when you consider that it's mostly S3 models that can have one and they suck in CC to begin with. The GK Grand Master is a killer, sure... and he's also crippled by the rest of the DH codex.

Give us 'hunters cheap transports, updated weapons and stuff. Then I'll trade in the special FWs.