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piranhas IMO aren't worth theyre points, 60 points for a 2KP 10 all round skimmer with a burst cannon and 2 TL carbines isnt all that good. If your play style focusses highly on mobility, then a FB piranha may be worth it, but a hammerhead will shoot off a higher S hit from 6 times the range, 12 times if you are talking melta range.

Devilfish can be extremely good, if you spend the 40 extra points to get a SMS for 20, TA for 5, MT for 10, and DP for 5, for 120 points you get a pretty powerful close range tank that is hard to kill with long range stuff. IMO its always worth upgrading the fish to that point, if you leave them as is, theyre 80 points for a 2 KP transport with 2 crappy shots at TL BS2 and 3 BS3 shots... transfer that over to 4 shots that ignore most cover and LoS, plus the 3 burst, all at BS4, and its really good anti vehicle.

a Warfish is also good for soaking up fire, with obscurity and decent armor. And if your enemy is ignoring the fish, after it drops off you can use it to get in the way, or zoom forward to harass other troops, or tank shock them.

And if you're playing a lower points game, 500-800ish, a warfish is extremely powerful. For that size game it packs a lot of firepower, and most of your enemy will probably be infantry.

Dashofpepper wrote:Interesting bit on the Piranhas. I've never used them before because I usually bring a team or two of broadsides to do my vehicle killing...I'll have to look into it more.

And firewarriors in devilfish...the problem there is that the devilfish is a pressurized environment and the devilfish inside have no firing ports and can't take any shots out. If you want to *USE* your firewarriors, its a two turn endeavor. Move, deploy, shoot, move them back into the devilfish next turn...don't you think you lose a lot of firepower to keep your firewarriors locked up inside your devilfish?

I'd rather have them alive taking objectives than being dead or running cause of returning fire. Firewarriors tend not to survive very well on foot.

The Bringer wrote: In truth, I haven't had that much experience with objective grabs. I've done about three times. (I started 40k three months ago) Part of that is the roll of the die. That's all to say that I play a lot of annihilation and is not usually concerned about keeping troops alive as much as in an objecive grab.

Emphasis mine. Not as much as you'd think. Sticking a transport with troops in it on an objective will often buy you two turns of scoring- a turn to kill the transport and a turn to kill whats inside. Killing the transport is often a lot more difficult than you would expect and it doesn't care about immobilised/shaken/stunned/weapon destroyed anymore.

Alternatively, sticking a transport on top of an objective you already own will stop any dirty last turn tank shocks onto it.

In other news, annihilation is a terrible mission (alright mechanic for altering list design, but a boring mission)- play more objective games!

I plan on doing more in the future, and I will experiment with the D-Fish. I have yet to get some Piranhas.

I won't be able to try it out right away, since I'm in a little tournament with some friends, and we can't change our list midway.

Ghetto_Fight wrote:

Wakinglimb wrote:

The Bringer wrote:Sorry, yeah.

What would you need to roll to hit a vehicle? Or is it instant?

If it moved fast, 6's, 4's for normal speeds and auto for immobile/not moved.

I use the 2 Piranha suicide squad at 2000 points. The fact they can move so far really makes them versatile imo.

As for Fish, I have lists where I run 4 warfish. Lots of str5 shots, 4+ cover save, AV12 on the front - what's not to like? Keep your FWs buttoned up, then unleash their rapid fire goodness on mass. Obviously depends how you play, but for an opponent to see that, 3 hammerheads and a few suits - they normally worry.

It's a 2000p list I take it?

Yeah it is. My 2000 has either 3 or 4 Warfish with 10 or 8 firewarriors in them, hyper tooled up 185 Shas'o, 9 XV8s and 3 Hammerheads. Loads of firepower and highly mobile.

I just am always leaning against anything with armour since they usually die fast. The ork player I play with usually has plenty of anti-armour weapons (Power Claws and Rocket Lanchas out the wozoo) and the space marine player usually has the same. Every time I introduce something with armour, they usually unload onto it thinking that it is VERY dangerous, kind of funny, but it still gets nurfed.

The Bringer wrote:I just am always leaning against anything with armour since they usually die fast. The ork player I play with usually has plenty of anti-armour weapons (Power Claws and Rocket Lanchas out the wozoo) and the space marine player usually has the same. Every time I introduce something with armour, they usually unload onto it thinking that it is VERY dangerous, kind of funny, but it still gets nurfed.

...but what if on turn 1 the armour gets a 4+ cover save? And remember if he's shooting your armour, he's not shooting your suits...

I honestly think the Warfish is one of the best transports in the game (second to Wave Serpant in my experience).

Wakinglimb wrote:

Ghetto_Fight wrote:

Wakinglimb wrote:

The Bringer wrote:Sorry, yeah.

What would you need to roll to hit a vehicle? Or is it instant?

If it moved fast, 6's, 4's for normal speeds and auto for immobile/not moved.

I use the 2 Piranha suicide squad at 2000 points. The fact they can move so far really makes them versatile imo.

As for Fish, I have lists where I run 4 warfish. Lots of str5 shots, 4+ cover save, AV12 on the front - what's not to like? Keep your FWs buttoned up, then unleash their rapid fire goodness on mass. Obviously depends how you play, but for an opponent to see that, 3 hammerheads and a few suits - they normally worry.

It's a 2000p list I take it?

Yeah it is. My 2000 has either 3 or 4 Warfish with 10 or 8 firewarriors in them, hyper tooled up 185 Shas'o, 9 XV8s and 3 Hammerheads. Loads of firepower and highly mobile.

Just FYI about the hyper tooled up Shas'o, you can only choose up to 100 points worth of stuff for a battlesuit. 185 minus the 75 for the Shas'o equals 110.

The Bringer wrote:
Just FYI about the hyper tooled up Shas'o, you can only choose up to 100 points worth of stuff for a battlesuit. 185 minus the 75 for the Shas'o equals 110.

Damn! You are right.

I've been running a Shas'o, Shield Generator, TL Plasma Rifles, Stimulant Injectors, Iridium Armour and 2 Shield Drones - basically never dies. Bit is illegal it would seem! I'll just have to swap the SDs for GDs or drop the iridum armour.

Yeah, I know how you feel. I wanted my commander to have two shield drones, but I couldn't becuase of all the other stuff. However, give him two bodyguards who have shield drones. They will all be in the same unit still, and you will have two more battlesuits.

don't worry, only wargear counts towards the 100 point limit, not hard-point weapons/support.

I'm eagerly awaiting the day that the last codex with a wargear section gets replaced. Too much confusion.

I missed that. Thanks.

Shep wrote:don't worry, only wargear counts towards the 100 point limit, not hard-point weapons/support.

I'm eagerly awaiting the day that the last codex with a wargear section gets replaced. Too much confusion.

I have to disagree here. Any confusion with the wargear section usually results from people not thouroughly reading their codexes. Wargear sections are the thing I miss second to most from the new codexes. The thing I miss most: Having a unit's special rules listed WITH it's points and options.

I think that pathfinders are essential to every tau battleforce so you will be requiring at least one. It could also be useful against horde armies closing in on your fire warrior teams, put them in the transport and drive off 12 inches to a safer place or something.

Lordhat wrote:

Shep wrote:don't worry, only wargear counts towards the 100 point limit, not hard-point weapons/support.

I'm eagerly awaiting the day that the last codex with a wargear section gets replaced. Too much confusion.

I have to disagree here. Any confusion with the wargear section usually results from people not thouroughly reading their codexes. Wargear sections are the thing I miss second to most from the new codexes. The thing I miss most: Having a unit's special rules listed WITH it's points and options.

I totally agree, not having wargear sections leads to cookie cutter HQ's.

EDIT: Nrmn, I was asking a Q, but its pointless.

pirhanas good and worth it the papers might not look good but on the battle feild they realy help

and the d-fish is prob one of the best transports in the game so i would say they are both worth it