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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 14:19:53
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Implacable Skitarii
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Against anything guardsmen can't kill themselves, ogryns lose. Sure they can take a lot of hits, but they probably are not causing as many as they take, see LD7. If you want them to stay you have to buy them a commissar, and thats only 5 ogryn in a chimera.
But it can be worse than that. Unlike a speed bump guard squad they might stay and fight a unit for too long, meaning you can't shoot what they are engaged with.
I would agree that they can be a better tarpit than GK terminators with all the power weapons around, but they still are less killy than RR, and more expensive than guardsmen for a speed bump.
"-MC's even have to sit up and take notice, ESPECIALLY if the "Bring it down" order applies to HtH attacks."
I had not thought of this, and its a really cool idea. However since they can't take a vox, they have to be withing 12" of the CHQ or 6" of a PHQ.
A minimum size squad or the ogryn character with FNP might have uses, but I don't see a point in maxing them out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 17:26:32
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ogyrn fit the background much better than GKT. They are pricy but somewhat versatile. I think their Achilles heel is their low leadership... If they need a comissar that is more points.
Rough riders were never any good because a smart opponent would shoot them all down before they ever got off a charge... Not hard to do either.
G
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 19:22:00
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fireknife Shas'el
All over the U.S.
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How would Ogryns do against bugs?
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Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 19:28:00
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Western Washington State, U.S.A.
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focusedfire wrote:How would Ogryns do against bugs?
I'd guess they'd do pretty darn well against the majority of bugs, especially Bow Fly's.
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"All of the whining pisses me off... Somewhere some whiny girlyman reinterpreted sportsmanship to reflect the build and not the player. The build has nothing to do with sportsmanship and getting docked as such is ludicrous." -Inigo Montoya
That being said, I'll still give you a 0 if you bring more than 5 eldar skimmers. Don't be that guy.
Also, strippers. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 19:31:21
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Against nids, anything tooled up for CC will eat them alive (pun intended) and anything not intended is most likely just a tarpit to allow their other units to eat you alive.
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Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/29 04:10:45
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I don't play nidz so any thought in that direction is utterly futile.
G
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/31 09:08:10
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Western Washington State, U.S.A.
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I cease to care if they will be effective. I bought em', I'll use em... against tau.
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"All of the whining pisses me off... Somewhere some whiny girlyman reinterpreted sportsmanship to reflect the build and not the player. The build has nothing to do with sportsmanship and getting docked as such is ludicrous." -Inigo Montoya
That being said, I'll still give you a 0 if you bring more than 5 eldar skimmers. Don't be that guy.
Also, strippers. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/31 09:16:53
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fireknife Shas'el
All over the U.S.
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@Kungfu- Nice job on the paint. Do you have any other stuff in the gallery? Would love to see if you do.
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Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/31 09:22:49
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fireknife Shas'el
All over the U.S.
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Off-topicSorry for the double post but just checked the gallery.
Kungfu, I really like the city grey theme. Love the stealth mode Russ
On-topic-I will admit that I'm in the camp of wishing the Ogryn were a little cheaper
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Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/31 19:54:05
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
The vast open plains of North America
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A buddy of mine did some math on various bugs vs. Ogryns. I don't remember the full numbers, but the basic results were:
Genestealers eat the Ogryn.
Ogryn stand up to little bugs really well.
Ogryn can get the odd wound on monstrous creatures, and can survive the counter attack reasonably well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/31 21:25:38
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Biophysic wrote:A buddy of mine did some math on various bugs vs. Ogryns. I don't remember the full numbers, but the basic results were:
Genestealers eat the Ogryn.
Ogryn stand up to little bugs really well.
Ogryn can get the odd wound on monstrous creatures, and can survive the counter attack reasonably well.
Unless it's a S10 Carnifex. Or a tyrant with Implant attack. Or tyrant with Guard, with the lash whips to remove many Ogryn attacks.
Too many caveats. :(
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Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 22:43:52
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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I would love to include some Ogryns in my 2000pt but not 1500pt guard army, mainly because I've come up with an interesting conversion I'm just drying to feature in my army. The biggest problem is figuring out where is best to put them.
Should I put 6 of them in a Chimera (it would be the only transport vehcile in the army) and go on the offensive, surely that much muscle would throw some firepower away from my troops. Or maybe take 2 squads of 3 to put in my main firebase and use them to counter charge assault units and hold them up while my other units get clear?
So if took Ogryns where do you think they'd be most effective?
Also its not the low save or high cost that scares me it's the low leadership one lost combat could mean a 250pts unit mowed down!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/04/18 22:47:22
CHECK OUT MY NEW ARMY PROJECT BELOW....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:07:42
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
UK
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Proiteus wrote:I would love to include some Ogryns in my 2000pt but not 1500pt guard army, mainly because I've come up with an interesting conversion I'm just drying to feature in my army. The biggest problem is figuring out where is best to put them.
Should I put 6 of them in a Chimera (it would be the only transport vehcile in the army) and go on the offensive, surely that much muscle would throw some firepower away from my troops. Or maybe take 2 squads of 3 to put in my main firebase and use them to counter charge assault units and hold them up while my other units get clear?
So if took Ogryns where do you think they'd be most effective?
Also its not the low save or high cost that scares me it's the low leadership one lost combat could mean a 250pts unit mowed down!
Its a Raw LD6-7 on combats reguardless of the combat results (assuming one model made it out). Can the regimental standard be used to allow a re-roll to a combat rez check? My morale rules are a bit rusty.
In a chimera you remove the poor save issue but you also remove thier awesome toughness although the tank can move 6" and youll get a good chunk of str 5 shots pouring out.
Infront of a chimera (with camo netting) , I think, is where these guys will shine. Itll take a decent amount of anti-troop shooting to remove the orgyns & while they are there the tank gets a decent 3+ cover save! Its a fair amount of points & may work better with tank squadrens. I dunno.
210 = 40 sparely equipped guard. Or 5 orgyrns. But then guard wont give a chimera a cover save. (50%)
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H.B.M.C. wrote:Friend of mine just sent me this:
"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ." Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!
Heh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:08:47
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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The only reason to take them is for the "oh wow, Ogyrns  " reaction.
In virtually any situation you would be better with a large unit of guardsmen + Commissar w/ a powerweapon.
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The Happy Guardsman
Red Templars
Radical Inquisitor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:10:26
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Razerous wrote:Proiteus wrote:I would love to include some Ogryns in my 2000pt but not 1500pt guard army, mainly because I've come up with an interesting conversion I'm just drying to feature in my army. The biggest problem is figuring out where is best to put them.
Should I put 6 of them in a Chimera (it would be the only transport vehcile in the army) and go on the offensive, surely that much muscle would throw some firepower away from my troops. Or maybe take 2 squads of 3 to put in my main firebase and use them to counter charge assault units and hold them up while my other units get clear?
So if took Ogryns where do you think they'd be most effective?
Also its not the low save or high cost that scares me it's the low leadership one lost combat could mean a 250pts unit mowed down!
Its a Raw LD6-7 on combats reguardless of the combat results (assuming one model made it out). Can the regimental standard be used to allow a re-roll to a combat rez check? My morale rules are a bit rusty.
In a chimera you remove the poor save issue but you also remove thier awesome toughness although the tank can move 6" and youll get a good chunk of str 5 shots pouring out.
Infront of a chimera (with camo netting) , I think, is where these guys will shine. Itll take a decent amount of anti-troop shooting to remove the orgyns & while they are there the tank gets a decent 3+ cover save! Its a fair amount of points & may work better with tank squadrens. I dunno.
210 = 40 sparely equipped guard. Or 5 orgyrns. But then guard wont give a chimera a cover save. (50%)
You honestly want to spend that many points to screen a chimera?!
Just buy a AV12 Sentinel, costs a lot less.
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The Happy Guardsman
Red Templars
Radical Inquisitor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:15:34
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fixture of Dakka
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"Just buy a AV12 Sentinel, costs a lot less. "
several sentinels cost alot less!
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"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:26:19
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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alarmingrick wrote:"Just buy a AV12 Sentinel, costs a lot less. "
several sentinels cost alot less!
But most players will have those FA slots already taken up with rough riders, scout sentinels or hellhound/Chem Dogs.
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CHECK OUT MY NEW ARMY PROJECT BELOW....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 23:42:12
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Proiteus wrote:alarmingrick wrote:"Just buy a AV12 Sentinel, costs a lot less. "
several sentinels cost alot less!
But most players will have those FA slots already taken up with rough riders, scout sentinels or hellhound/Chem Dogs.
Really?
Rough Riders... meh they're ok.
Scout Sentinels, still weak.
Hellhounds/Dogs: Expensive and risky.
Now Vendettas/Valks. That something that will eat up Fast attack slots. But unless you are Mr. Money Bags, getting 3 Valk kits is going to take some time
55pts for a AV12 sentinel that can screen armor and tie up things in CC? It's not that bad of a deal (better than Ogyrns).
But you know what the best way to screen a Chimera is?
ANOTHER CHIMERA!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/18 23:43:56
The Happy Guardsman
Red Templars
Radical Inquisitor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 04:20:09
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka
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BoxANT wrote:
Now Vendettas/Valks. That something that will eat up Fast attack slots. But unless you are Mr. Money Bags, getting 3 Valk kits is going to take some time
Since when has this stopped anyone? People buy Reaver titans, you think $180 in Valkes is going to stop anyone?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 04:23:06
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
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Redbeard wrote:BoxANT wrote:
Now Vendettas/Valks. That something that will eat up Fast attack slots. But unless you are Mr. Money Bags, getting 3 Valk kits is going to take some time
Since when has this stopped anyone? People buy Reaver titans, you think $180 in Valkes is going to stop anyone?
That would be the aformentioned Mr. Moneybags.
There is a reason why the new expensive kit is so effectively points costed and 3 to a slot.
It's called Greed
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Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 04:29:00
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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BoxANT wrote:[As for Rough Riders, is the rumor that they took the Krak Grenades off their Lances and put them in their pockets (gain Krak Grenades, but Lances no longer ignore armor), then really IG has no effective "killy CC" unit. Perhaps that's ok, after all, we're IG, we shoot stuff.
Rough riders still have S5 Power Weapons on the charge and are, frankly, the absolute best counter assault guard has for the points. All guard wants to do is keep people away from their guns. Rough Riders do this very, very well and at six points a model for the first five and 10 points a model for the next five, they were born to be sacrificed. This is from the official new codex which is readily available in previews right now.
Ogryns and Storm Troopers having similar points costs to Terminators and Marines respectively are one of the few dark spots in an excellently written codex. Their points cost are so ridiculously out of wack with what they can do in the codex, and how effective similarly priced units cost in other codexes (an Ogryn is going to cost almost the same as a terminator with a storm shield?!?!?!!?), that their points costs boarder on lunacy. The cost of Ogryns alone makes them utterly worthless, notwithstanding the host of valid points already made in this thread. You can have four squads of five Rough Riders for the cost of one five man Ogryn unit. Five Ogryns are going to protect your gun lines more than 20 Rough Riders?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/19 04:30:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 04:42:37
Subject: Re:New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Boxant wrote:
"But you know what the best way to screen a Chimera is?
ANOTHER CHIMERA! "
you sir, are the winner! you spend as much as you do on the Sentinel, but double the heavy weapons, can carry a squad and don't lose a FA slot to boot!! not to mention you can get 2 Chimeras for a cheaper point total than you can get 3 Ogryns! sorry, but i don't see me ever feilding the big smelly brutes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/04/19 08:14:44
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 05:16:29
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Kasrkinlegion wrote:BoxANT wrote:[As for Rough Riders, is the rumor that they took the Krak Grenades off their Lances and put them in their pockets (gain Krak Grenades, but Lances no longer ignore armor), then really IG has no effective "killy CC" unit. Perhaps that's ok, after all, we're IG, we shoot stuff.
Rough riders still have S5 Power Weapons on the charge and are, frankly, the absolute best counter assault guard has for the points. All guard wants to do is keep people away from their guns. Rough Riders do this very, very well and at six points a model for the first five and 10 points a model for the next five, they were born to be sacrificed. This is from the official new codex which is readily available in previews right now.
Ogryns and Storm Troopers having similar points costs to Terminators and Marines respectively are one of the few dark spots in an excellently written codex. Their points cost are so ridiculously out of wack with what they can do in the codex, and how effective similarly priced units cost in other codexes (an Ogryn is going to cost almost the same as a terminator with a storm shield?!?!?!!?), that their points costs boarder on lunacy. The cost of Ogryns alone makes them utterly worthless, notwithstanding the host of valid points already made in this thread. You can have four squads of five Rough Riders for the cost of one five man Ogryn unit. Five Ogryns are going to protect your gun lines more than 20 Rough Riders?
Well, in my defense, that quote was from March 21st, when we didn't know if RR did have Powerweapons on the charge
Are RR IG's best CC unit? Of course, but that isn't saying a whole lot. It's like being the tallest dwarf.
Can RR be effective? Yes, of course. A squad of 10 will run you about 105pts and wil kill ~112pts of Marines on the charge, even better if they hit a juicy target.
But again, they're competing for Valk/Vend slots.
Hell, you might even be better off taking Marbo. He's a 1 shot demo charge, an elite choice, rather accurate, and cheaper.
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The Happy Guardsman
Red Templars
Radical Inquisitor
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/19 05:57:42
Subject: New Ogryns, useless? Or Mech Guard tool?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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Mmmmm.....I can use my Sly Marbo fig again!!! woohoo!!!!
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Praise the Emperor and pass the ammunition!!! |
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