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Guardians

/thread

omar wrote:but i still am not understanding why they don't put every soulstone in a wraithlord

Because per Eldar fluff they view this as an abbomination, only to be done as a last resort. Think about how happy you would be if someone raised your dead grandma, and you had to share a foxhole with her rotting carcass. Sure the old lady can still shoot, and she can certainly take an AK round to the chest like no one else, but it would not be really pleasant for you.

The Eldar are dying out because it's Grimdark.
Fluff-wise though, I'd assume it's a combination of a low birthrate and PURGE THE XENOS.

omar wrote:but i still am not understanding why they don't put every soulstone in a wraithlord

Because they see that as grave robbing.
Also what Foil7102 wrote.

not enough resources ? i thought wraithlords are made out of wraithbone , and that is VERY renewable iirc

If they do reproduce by reincarnation then the problem is there.

Before Slaanesh was created this was not a problem (because there was no problem for the souls of the recently dead to reincarnate in a new body)

Now, all souls are eaten by slaanesh OR are trapped in soulstones to prevent slaanesh's consumption. However, because the souls are trapped in the soulstones the souls cannot be reincarnated.

When an eldar dies their souls go either to slaanesh (mmm mmm good) or into a soulstone. So the eldar are starting to run out of bodies.

The Dark Eldar have hidden themselves in the webway to protect themselves, and eat souls to extend their own lifespans (i think that's how it works). If only the craftworld fruits would jump into the webway and join in the fun they too could live forever.

I think the Dark Eldar torture out of necessity. It doesn't only extend their lives it allows them to reproduce, by some means. Some kind of pact with slaanesh? Feeding off of soul essence?

If anyone knows the fluff on this it would be helpful.

Dark Eldar have a Pact with Slaanesh. Rather than going "oh nomnomnomnom" to their souls, the Dark Eldar capture other races and feed those souls to he/she/it.

Gwar! wrote:Dark Eldar have a Pact with Slaanesh. Rather than going "oh nomnomnomnom" to their souls, the Dark Eldar capture other races and feed those souls to he/she/it.

not correct, rather because of the lack of soul stones Slaanesh is slowly devouring their souls throughout their lives, and the only way to replenish their life force is to steal other peoples life force through torture.

also eldar can reproduce biologically, but its stated that pregnancy is along time with the male repeatedly adding genetic material to the embryo during this period.

IE: the male has to have sex at certain intervials to add required genetic material to the baby as it grows, otherwise the female will miscarry.

Sounds stupid, what if another male happens to "add" to the mix because the 1st one bought the farm?

M.

I would assume the baby dies, and the Eldar race is fuxxed.

foil7102 wrote:

omar wrote:but i still am not understanding why they don't put every soulstone in a wraithlord

Because per Eldar fluff they view this as an abbomination, only to be done as a last resort. Think about how happy you would be if someone raised your dead grandma, and you had to share a foxhole with her rotting carcass. Sure the old lady can still shoot, and she can certainly take an AK round to the chest like no one else, but it would not be really pleasant for you.

i know that the eldar only do it in a last resort , but isn't this a last resort ? if they don't do it then the other races will win .
if they do it , they would have enough troops to destroy everybody ( including slaanesh ) and then , there would be no problem
to re-incarnate .

btw , when destroying slaanesh , would they get the souls that were eaten by he/she/it ?

When you eat an apple, do you get it back later?

Just think of it that way

oh , alright .
but still , it doesnt make sense , the dead people could fight , and when they destroyed everybody , they could take their souls out of the stones ( by destroying them ? ) and everybody re-incarnates.

Soulstones cant contain the full soul, only the important parts. If you did that you would get a bunch of slow eldar being reincarnated because the souls have decayed beyond saving. It's why wrathguard/lords still need direction from Living eldar.

they nead directions . alright .
but you still haven't told me why they don't put the soulstones in wraithlords , kill everybody and then live on , without anybody destroying them

Gwar! wrote:I would assume the baby dies, and the Eldar race is fuxxed.

And since the Eldar are constantly at war, this is why they are dying.

omar wrote:they nead directions . alright .
but you still haven't told me why they don't put the soulstones in wraithlords , kill everybody and then live on , without anybody destroying them

Because, again, that's grave robbing to them. It's only done on occasion or in emergencies.
Iyanden only has so many Wraithlords and Wraithguard because they needed the numbers to fight off the 'Nids, and even then most of them got eaten, so they have field a large number of Wraiths in most of their battles.

Firstly yay I got Sigged

Secondly lets not forget that Wrathguard are annoying to take care of, and that it is a necessary evil. And anyway, how will sticking everyone into a wrath-body help? What happens when there are no Warlocks/Farseers left? The wraths do bugger all and the Eldar are still wiped out.

Gwar! wrote:Soulstones cant contain the full soul, only the important parts. If you did that you would get a bunch of slow eldar being reincarnated because the souls have decayed beyond saving. It's why wrathguard/lords still need direction from Living eldar.

You got it wrong my friend, the main problem with wraithsight not the lack of a complete soul but that WG/WL unless directed by a lock tend to go into "When I was a young eldar we didn´t have this fancy shuricats" pissing contests.

M.

Either way putting everyone in Wraithguard bodies wont help when all the fleshy eldar are dead and the craftworlds decend into massive eldar pissing contests amirite?

If everyone goes into wraith guard/lord body and if they win the fight versus Slanesh, smashing the spirit stones does no good because their are no living Eldar left to procreate.

Except the dark Eldar who I assume would be freed from their need to give souls to slaanesh to not be nommed.

Eldar would not consider the fight finished until their tainted cousins met the same fate as their advessary Slanesh.

hmmm , so the eldar actually don't WANT to win ?
they only have to put the soulstones in wraithlords ,
the warlocks/farseers would still be living when doing this

You ask why they don't just put every dead person in a wraith lord and just ditch the wraithguard?

It is because you need a really strong soul. I read alittle piece of fluff where they mentioned an exarch manning a wraithGuard. I would expect you need an autarch or a farseer to control a wraithLORD. This is a very common misconseption, that I had myself before. An aspect warrior grunt wont do to man a wraithguard, let alone a wraithlord.

And, add to that, putting the soulstone in a wraith construct is only a temporary solution. Being away from the matrix will weaken and leach all force out of the soulstone, until the point where the previously so strong soul can't control its body. I guess, by this token, in a protracted campaign, you could have the spititstone of a farseer man first a wraithlord, and then a wraithguard when it can't manage with the bigger body.

Just my two cents.

Paul Atreides wrote:You ask why they don't just put every dead person in a wraith lord and just ditch the wraithguard?

It is because you need a really strong soul. I read alittle piece of fluff where they mentioned an exarch manning a wraithGuard. I would expect you need an autarch or a farseer to control a wraithLORD. This is a very common misconseption, that I had myself before. An aspect warrior grunt wont do to man a wraithguard, let alone a wraithlord.

And, add to that, putting the soulstone in a wraith construct is only a temporary solution. Being away from the matrix will weaken and leach all force out of the soulstone, until the point where the previously so strong soul can't control its body. I guess, by this token, in a protracted campaign, you could have the spititstone of a farseer man first a wraithlord, and then a wraithguard when it can't manage with the bigger body.

Just my two cents.

ahhhhh , now it makes sense . thanks for the information

We ask only to serve.

Glad to be of help.

Gwar! wrote:Either way putting everyone in Wraithguard bodies wont help when all the fleshy eldar are dead and the craftworlds decend into massive eldar pissing contests amirite?

When the "fleshy Eldar" are dead (the last of which will be the Pheonix Lords), the infinity circuits + WG + WL will form into Ynnead, the god of the dead.
Ynnead will then kill all the Chaos gods. Or so the story goes.

Paul Atreides wrote: I read alittle piece of fluff where they mentioned an exarch manning a wraithGuard.

Don't the souls of exarchs Stay in the Spirit Stone of the Exarch's armor and mix with the soul of the armor's new wearer?

There really is not a no good fluff explanation why eldar populations are on a continued decline. Craftworld Eldar live the most protected lives in 40K, they can predict the future and have technology and warriors that surpass that of their competitors.

Exodites are maintaining their populations – and might be increasing, dark eldar are exposed to much more dangers then craftworld eldar between countinuous fighting/pirating, callous commanders throwing their lives away on the battlefield, and the murders that occur in commanarh (SP) so they must be breeding or are rapidity running out of warriors.

Apparently Craftworld eldar are like the panda bears of 40K. It would defiantly in their species best interest if they breed more, but for some unknown reason they don’t seem interested.

I don’t think Slannesh is preventing reproduction. CE can enjoy a nice meal, admire art work, read a interesting book, and perform other activities of self-gratification as long as they don’t make a vice out of it, that includes having a healthy sex life – or at the very least mating occasionally in order to maintain the species. Also I don’t think breeding requires a stock eldar souls on standby – it’s a decent explanation considering the fluff black hole surrounding the issue, but it just doesn’t sound right to me.

The declining CE birth rate is one of the large logical inconsistencies in 40K. Eldar are one of the most successful species in 40K; they are protected against predation, disease, and accidents, have plenty of resources and habitation. Eldar populations should be gradually increasing not declining.

Side notes: In that alien anatomy book GWS published it suggested that eldar required repeated mating in order to produce offspring.

I also remember reading somewhere that it takes eldar children a few hundred years to reach adulthood.