Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sadly Therians have no mortars besides the one gained via Nina/Babel.

As I've said, I run two cobras with mortars. I haven't seen a lancelot. I have one of the stock toads. I"m drifting off topic, but I'm looking forward to starting an army at the beginning rather than trying to find units nobody seems to have in stock.

Yeah I stocked up on UNA massively last year, because I figured there would be shortages of popular items. So I have 14 Firetoads, 6 Cobras, and 2 converted Cobra M8's And plenty of Lasguns for my Steel Troopers too I have to agree with you though, it's much more fun stocking an army from the start of its release. First of all, everything is in stock, and secondly, its fun to wait for the release of that unit you know you want to put in your army list!

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I really struggle against Kollossus suits since I have no attachment boxes. My strategy now is just keep knocking them down with the mortars.

Not sure what type of group the majority of posters play with (and I'm sorry for grabbing onto your post Dal'yth Dude, but it's just an example) but when I don't have a particular model, I proxy. I needed lazguns this past weekend for my Multiple Steel Trooper units (but only have 2) and I substituted with an Clone Crossbowman from Confrontation's Dirz army.

My opponent didn't mind. Now official tourney's I understand, but seems that if you want to test out units / army's before you buy, using proxy's can't be beat.

My BIGs were playing an APOC battle for 40k and my eldest took some list with a ludicrous amount of SM Terminators... since I screwed up and ordered more Wolfen that I could possible use (unless I'm going to play a 10k game of Confrontation), he used Wolfen models to represent the 100+ SMT's that he needed. My youngest BIG didn't mind. He was using Zombie mini's from another game as proxies for his Possessed.

Only reason I post this, is it sounds like people are not using proxy models as a temporary substitute until production of the units ramps back up.

We just got back from our second gaming convention running these armies for AT-43 demos they work very well and like posted earlier give a great "flavor " of each army they also provide a new player a chance to play several armys in a short time to help them decide on what army they may like better Im looking forwad to doing ones for Cogs and Oni. an AFV, a type 1 unit and a battle suit are loads of fun for doing demos give it a try....

Saint Anuman wrote: AT-43 Starter Lists from At43 addict web site
So you’re thinking of getting into at-43 but don’t want to shell out for a full 2000+-point army? Here are some good places to start if you’re looking at getting into the game. Each of these armies will give you an AFV, a type 1 unit and a battle suit to give you a flavor of each of the unit types. Best of all none of the units will go un-used as they are all staples of each army.
UNA
· 1 Fire toad
· 1 steel trooper unit box
· 1 steel trooper attachment
· 1 unit of Steel TacArms
Karmans
· 1 Kaptar unit box
· 1 Wendigo unit box / or K-shooter unit box
· 1 easy Trike
Red Blok
· Krasnye unit box + attachment Box / or RPG Soldaty unit box + attachment box
· Dragomirov Kolossus box
· Sierp
Therians
· Storm Golem unit box
· Bane Goliath unit box
· Hekat
Each of these lists will come out to around 825 points give or take. You will get a feel for how the army will play and will find that all these units will be useful. Each of these armies is from their basic troop pattern so there are no extra rules to complicate matters. From here it is easy to branch out after you get a feel for how the army will play.

Yes st.anuman i have tried these and have to say it has made me reintrested in the game i think this is a great way to get new players and people that have played before but havnt played in a while like my self to get a taste of this game.i had a blast playing these and isnt that what its all about having fun?also if i have questions while playing i could ask about availability of models and what not.and actually after playing a few games i even threw down and bought both army box releases.well anyways just wanted to say thanks johng

Saint Anuman wrote:We just got back from our second gaming convention running these armies for AT-43 demos they work very well and like posted earlier give a great "flavor " of each army they also provide a new player a chance to play several armys in a short time to help them decide on what army they may like better Im looking forwad to doing ones for Cogs and Oni. an AFV, a type 1 unit and a battle suit are loads of fun for doing demos give it a try....

I dont know why you want to reiterate the same errors. Why not post lists for intro games for people hosting them, rather than purchae lists which are out of date, in some cases unobtainable and missing out on the real saving benefit of use to new players.

ITS funny i was just talking to ST.A the other day and he is going to try and update these lists but these lists are not written in stone there just a basic thing to introduce someone to the game and to show that this game is fun.these are not lists for a tourney or what not.it seems there is a lot of debate of weather this is a board game or a tabletop game,what list is what,when all that really matters in the end is if the game is fun or not.i mean good debates are great but somethings i read on forums are needless bashing or proving whos opinion is right.i think this would possibly scare,a new player looking to get into this game away.just my opinon

johng wrote:ITS funny i was just talking to ST.A the other day and he is going to try and update these lists but these lists are not written in stone there just a basic thing to introduce someone to the game

He hasnt updated them just reiterated them.

johng wrote:but somethings i read on forums are needless bashing or proving whos opinion is right.i think this would possibly scare,a new player looking to get into this game away.just my opinon

It's a question of logic, if you think vulnerable new players are going to be scared off it will happen when they try to source Steel Trooper Attachments and find the advice a non-starter, that U.N.A. out the window. If anyone is that vulnerable that is their walk away point, not over the reasonable input of counter-opinion. They might wonder what is so wrong witb the army boxsets that you dont recommend them. Frankly I dont think most gamers are so fragile, but if you know 'em.

Anumens 'ideas' are like telling new 40K players that such and such unit boxes are ideal, including some squats as recommended purchases to get into the game. but ignore any Battleforce boxsets or the Skull Pass boxset. The 'advice' is masked as a recommended good fun start - which you can have with other things equally much.

Orlanth whats your problem?
Just a few months ago you were on here asking for help whill you figured things out now your some kind of self appointed at-43 pro
My only intention is to do demos with this armies and give folks a feel for how thay play and all you do to knock it why??? Im not looking to sell you or anyone else anything and untill youve put these togther and done some demos with the sole intention to let the players see how these armys play you have no reason to open your flap other to just cause waves so really look me up in person if you want to start trouble other wise back the F off already.

Im not sure why people are nit picking on Saint Anuman's attempt on guiding new players.

He is listing the most popular / useful units offered by most armies , as well as taken in consideration the mandate units.

What seems to be the problem Orlanth? this thread originated in 5-19 even.

Surely both of us have taken advice from this thread?
so whats the issue now 3 months later?

Just let it go Anuman, seems like people want to bait you out again , though 3 month late lol...

Your right ...It did inspire me to chance my avatar to more fitting picture for this forum..

LunaHound wrote:Im not sure why people are nit picking on Saint Anuman's attempt on guiding new players.

Read up and see why. Its for several clearly consistent logical reasons. You give advice, especially purchase advice for new players, it pays to get it right.

LunaHound wrote:
What seems to be the problem Orlanth? this thread originated in 5-19 even.

....so whats the issue now 3 months later?

Ask Anumen that. Check the post dates. Indeed, but he came back to it and posted the same stuff, even quoting himself from the OT. Though to say despite all has been said the orginal advice is what he recommended to go with. There were huge logical inconsistencies with that, what is wrong with pointing them out?
If we cannot point out logical inconsistencies in army list advice we might as well shut down Dakka.

LunaHound wrote:
Surely both of us have taken advice from this thread?

Not really, except that I am learning what it is to be Cairnius.

LunaHound wrote:
Just let it go Anuman, seems like people want to bait you out again , though 3 month late lol...

I challenge you to quote where I baited anyone Luna. Keep your quotes in context so we can see. I also excluded GW design studio, who I have a frequently expressed very low opinion of, but have no direct presence here. If Jervis was a forum member I would not troll him.

Saint Anuman wrote:Orlanth whats your problem?

I have no problem.

Saint Anuman wrote:Just a few months ago you were on here asking for help whill you figured things out now your some kind of self appointed at-43 pro

Well some people it might take weeks to figure out, others hours. A lot of the stuff I was asking about in various threads I was asking confirmation of, where I said some advice was confusing I wasnt confused, but to say whats what from day one might have offended. So I gave it a run-in time. With exception of thiose rules which I had no access to I pretty had it mostly sorted out by looking at it. At-43 is not hard to understand, neither is 40K for that matter.

Saint Anuman wrote:
My only intention is to do demos with this armies and give folks a feel for how thay play and all you do to knock it why???

Why? the reasons were straight up. The advice was outdated at best. I have stated many logical reasons why the advice you gave was poor - which hold up, and you havent attempted to debunk. You just reinterated the original 'advice' as if you were actually saying something wise. Which is a bit contradictory isnt it.
The problem if any is that some people wont accept critique, even if polite - which it is, and reasonable - which it is.

I think I remember saying something about this being Dakka, a place where we speak out minds.

Saint Anuman wrote:
Im not looking to sell you or anyone else anything and untill youve put these togther and done some demos with the sole intention to let the players see how these armys play you have no reason to open your flap other to just cause waves so really look me up in person if you want to start trouble other wise back the F off already.

Not flipping out anywhere. in fact it looks like you are. I use logic, you use insults. That pretty much sums it up. This is the second time you have directly trolled me with pretty nasty words. Do you want a link to the first? I have never responded in kind, but carry on posting polite logic and reason in AT-43 threads. You going to try and shut me down now, like they tried with Cairnius?

Why dont you REALISE. On Dakka we speak our minds so long asc we do so fairly. Honest critique is not trolling, either, so dont try and hurt my rep simply because I find holes in what you say. Why get at someone for using polite logic and reason to differ from what you say. where is the point or reason in you getting angry? Deja Vu.

My only intention is to do demos with this armies and give folks a feel for how they play and all you do to knock it why??? I'm not looking to sell you or anyone else anything and until you've put these together and done some demos with the sole intention to let the players see how these army's play you have no reason to open your flap other to just cause waves

seems pretty obvious

Empire1 wrote:

My only intention is to do demos with this armies and give folks a feel for how they play and all you do to knock it why??? I'm not looking to sell you or anyone else anything and until you've put these together and done some demos with the sole intention to let the players see how these army's play you have no reason to open your flap other to just cause waves

seems pretty obvious

What is even more obvious is that:

1. You cannot actually get the full selection of units listed.
2. If doesnt take into account the options set up fior new players such as intro boxsets.
3. It doesnt give more of a flavour of the the game than most other combinations.
4. While I accept the arguement that pricing was not the issue, it is too big an issue to really ignore, or more accurately noone should be shouted down if they raise it ancillary to other suggestions.

What does:

· Krasnye unit box + attachment Box / or RPG Soldaty unit box + attachment box
· Dragomirov Kolossus box
· Sierp

..offer a new player that the Red Blok Army Box does not except for:

- far fewer models
- no intro books
- no templates dice or tape measure
- a higher pricetag, over a third more by RRP, slightly more by firesale prices
- a smaller selection of items from the army list
- no sample terrain

Also is it any more 'fun', or indicative of the lists. Not really. It's just blatantly bad advice for new players on so many levels, it gives no better feel for the game than more reasonable options, in fact you get less variety in the 'recommended' selection than in the Army box. Bad advice is fine enough, but why shoot down good advice that follows it, what purpose is there in that, except to salve wounded pride; it blatantly wont help any new players thats for sure.

Well enough on this. I have had my say and my case is clear. If you think I was doing wrong take it to the mods, I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

I only say that because of these demos, i personally bought 2 army boxes,why? because i was told by St. A that these were going to be available when i was givin a demo.its funny because the guy is really trying to introduce people to this game.never once did he say buy from me i own a store.but i realize unlike a lot of people out there who buy from ebay or these fire sales,that if you dont but from your flgs and support them , people will be playing in there basement or whereever. Again he did not tell me this is an army list i need to play or this is what you have to play! And he also is a huge fan and supporter of this game,not sure were everyone here is from but this game would prob be dead in are area. Not because the game is bad but because like confrontation this game needs people to really support it, at least that has been my experiance. anyway just my thoughts

Funny thing for me is I didn't start playing until after the FLGS stopped stocking the product. None of the FLGS in my area had any support for the game.

Now that I play the game and enjoy it more than TOG, I'm glad to be able to buy a faction from the beginning.

johng wrote:I only say that because of these demos, i personally bought 2 army boxes,why? because i was told by St. A that these were going to be available when i was givin a demo.its funny because the guy is really trying to introduce people to this game.never once did he say buy from me i own a store.

I appreciate that St Anumen helped you face to face. Though again it looks like the lists in the OT are best for selections to be taken from an existing collection to set up intro games. In which case you list units for pick up play rather than boxsets, and for client use not sale. Then follow up with a well informed but completely seperate purchase recommendation, I can see this and have no problem with it. Its just that that is not even close to what the thread implies.

johng wrote:
but i realize unlike a lot of people out there who buy from ebay or these fire sales,that if you dont but from your flgs and support them , people will be playing in there basement or whereever.

While not relevant to the thread itself relying on smart purchases helps. Supporting an FLGS can be important, if you have one that is. But the deals won't last forever, and buying the odd full rpicesd boxset or two is an easier pill to swallow if the bulk of an army was bought elsewhere. You could logically argue that you could simply buy less and get it all from the FLGS, but then you have less and want less. Rackham has made a few critical errors in their pricing plan ones that made 2-3k seem like large collections. Just lurk on the official AT-43 forums and read up a few months and people considered armies around those points value as 'large'. This volume of material would barely make a skirmish force for 40K on a miniature-for-miniature basis. Firesales have opened up something by accident that should have happened earlier by design. Cheaper but far larger collections. By being able to afford to collect to 6-8k, or even more, there is a trickle down effect particularly with new armies.
Despite many rules errors I am very impressed with At-43 and have been sinking my disposable capital into the game over the last three months. I dont intend to stop anytime soon.

Thanks orlanth.yeah i hear you about sinking doug in i plan on sinking alot more myself

Update;
Ive done/ran two demo tables with these army's at three different conventions within just this past 8 months I am truly impressed at how well this are working for me in such a format, its allowing me to demo more than one army and how it plays to the "potential new player" my last demo was with a guy looking at red blok or Therains after about a hour of play testing he decided he like the therains and spent $400.00 on his new army I was floored and very happy.

Giving the fan base "a feel for how each army plays" has been the biggest single thing thats working so well for me ignoring points and build types and focusing on demo'n how the army's feel and recruitment has made selling at-43 a breeze for both a new player AND veteran players thinking of starting a second force to collect I wish I could take the credit for these army build ideas but they come from the at-43 addict site and if I ever get a chance to buy that guy a beer I will.....

For the Cogs, I was looking at:

4 x Warmonger + C-Nocrat G09
2 x Hunters
1 x Prowler

It'll give you a hero and standard infantry, a type 3 infantry and a vehicle.
I'm thinking if you add a G-Nocrat G09 (medic) you give the demo army the medic mechanic to show off and bring the list to
a total of 880 ( + or - ).
Looking at the lists in org. post, build totals are
Karman 885
UNA 875
Red 875
Ther. 880

This gives a fairly nice line up of demo army's that play fun and only thier purpose is to give people a feel for each army and demo the game in short fun games. I'm going to add this list to my line up looks like it will fit right in....

This might still have some usefull info...

Please don't necro threads you don't understand.

St Anumens advice was obsolete when the posted it, and doubly so because at least one of what he recommends from each army is flat out unavailable. Including Sierp, Fire Toads, Steel Trooper attachments and Hekats. The Karman list he mentioned you can get if you wish, but the Karman army box is out soon.

The advice Cairnius and I gave while valid at the time no longer helps because of the shortage of Damocles boxsets, or more accurately they are no longer available at a decent price. Two or three Damocles boxsets at $70 each (often more) are NOT a good way to start an army. Also Bane Goliaths are hard to source.

The starter list advice has now changed to: "Buy the Army Box."

So, we have Threadnomancy so that we can start a flame war?

No, I don't think so.