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halo3uber wrote:Hmm... Life has improved hasn't it? ( Gets out from under rock) I suppose we've learned to live in a comfortable balance with the ecosystem. By dominating it. Trees getting chopped down in Brazil? Think all of the posters the treehuggers put up to protest this. We've done a decent job of getting down from the trees, standing up straight and then chopping the trees down over the last 20,00 years or so. we still have disease and famine, but that's where oppressive totalitarian regimes come in, telling us nothing's wrong and making us believe their bull$h1^

I am mainly of this form of thought, because I can't help but think that the powers that be would have an intention beyond power, greed, and censorship. It just doesn't make any sense why they would want people to see what is going on, no one likes to see the Vietnam war photos (well... I suppose some would) and since these events the censorship throughout the media (in a very tricky sense) has become an every day cut and dry half-lie no truth situation. I may be overreacting but I can't understand why real, mind boggling, perspective altering, and sincerely disturbing images of the effects of our own personal american Jihad on the middle east have become so standard and unquestionable. A Gasoline jihad you could say, powered by a plethora of big names and even bigger companies. Have we left Iraq yet? I think not, and at what point did that become a secondary news piece to Micheal Jackson and media friends???

Anyway, if the world gets fethed over in a couple hundred years, I won't be around to know about it. I'll be sitting in a celestial lawn chair alongside God, Michael Jackson, and Frazzled. Steve Irwin can get the beer.

Micheal Jackson made it to heaven?

Wrexasaur wrote:I would agree, but only to a certain extent. The news is just there, I have NO choice but to hear about Micheal Jackson... which is just not all that important, regardless of popular opinion. It is a "sad" thing that he did, but I could honestly care less... no offense or anything.

I thought Michael Jackson's death was interesting for about a day. After that I was over it and skipped whatever 'breaking' news was being reported. Meanwhile a really contraversial, difficult character like Robert McNamara dies and it goes almost entirely unnoticed. So, yeah, I agree that the media's priorities are screwy.

However, their priorities are driven by ratings, and that means what is reported is what people are interested in. People as a whole dictate what gets reported, and we dictate that most media is irrelevant junk.

This is a pretty complicated subject, but there is absolutely no reason why you can't make people fearful to the degree of submission. Scare tactics backed up by politics and products, that is pacifying through fear. An extreme of this would be the phenomena of Nazi Germany, although it is quite hard to compare the U.S. to WW2 Germany in any way.

I agree that you can get people to agree with something out of fear. Bush talked about all those horrible, horrible weapons on mass destruction and got everyone so scared they supported an invasion of Iraq without ever noticing that the weapons didn't exist. But creating fear like is a short term game, as it never takes long for the initial shock to wear off, at which point people see they were sold a pack of lies.

Long term, the way to keep people contented is to give them jobs, security and a chance to make their lives a little better. At which point people will happily work within the system. This would be shocking, except that providing the system in which people can be happy and prosperous is what society is supposed to do.

Have you ever dealt with a thousand people??? Saying that working with a dozen is the same would be sheer madness.

You'll probably need to read that part of the conversation again. You said going into the woods (with a group) would allow you to go beyond th grasp of social restraint. I pointed out there would still be social restraint from within the group. I never said it would be the same.

I am not saying this is how it should be, just that I seem to be in a pretty lonely boat on this one. I can understand that I could generally disagree with more than half of the worlds population on any manner of subjects, but the fact that people seem to want to be stuck in tiny little boxes astounds me. Take this as an insult if you want, but the current affairs of the world go unnoticed by many. I am not able to keep up on everything happening, and quite honestly there is just way too much stuff going on for me to form an independent opinion about everything.

Sure, and I am for the most part sympathetic to your line of thought. We all have (or at least should) develop angst about the world (angst in the philosophical sense, not the 'mock the teenagers' meaning its gathered over time).

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Keyasa wrote:
[soapbox rant edited]

Ah, soapbox, how I missed you.

Were you raised by an emo gang or something? The world is far from fethed, we have great men like Al Gore who are pushing for change and actually convincing people to stop and think about the earth.

Try saying that the Third World lives like kings. Tell that to the children in Africa with no water, or the innocents in the Middle-East who have lost their homes during the wars.

You think we get free everything handed to us by the state? Tell that to the millions of homeless people and the single parents struggling to keep a steady income.

You are a pessimist, and I loathe pessimists.

I am very much not a pessimist. I am a realist (I also don't know what an Emo is, to be honest). And of course we get everything handed to us by the state, open your eyes. I can only speak from my own experience (which incidentally is where we should ALL speak from) but I live in England, Liverpool, in a quite run-down part of the city called Norris Green.

Have you ever been thirsty? What did you do? Did you walk into the kitchen and turn a tap on? Exactly. Feeling those hunger pangs? I know, why don't we take a stroll to the supermarket; lets eat some grapes. Hang on, grapes don't grow in Liverpool do they? No, they are freighted in, either by sea or air. I hope this supermarket doesn't ever close, because if it does, I'm pretty screwed. I don't know how to grow my own food for a start, nor do I know how to hunt, and even if I could hunt, I have no idea how to gut and skin an animal.

But here's the problem. As it stands, I don't NEED to know how to do any of these things, because Society tells me I don't. As you say, the world is not fethed yet, and we all stand together as brothers and will work for the best of everyone. Food, water, clothing, heat, shelter, our western civilised world is a paradise where every person can be whatever they want to be with a good education; a philosopher, a scientist, a tax collector, a policeman, a politician, the President! Fantastic. Great people, very worthwhile professions in this day and age.

Now, if we take a look at something else, completely unrelated to religion, civil unrest, war, any of these things. Let’s look a natural disaster. Hurricane Katrina? A lot of people suddenly realized that they could not just walk to the supermarket, turn on a tap, find shelter and warmth for the night. Anarchy reigned, and I believe there were not enough police to stem the outbreak of pillaging, looting, abuse, even reports of murder and rape. This is in the most developed, civilized country on Earth! If these reports are true, then surely my position of realism cannot be rebuked because of your optimist feelings. These are regular people who turned feral in a time of crisis. We are only 9 meals from anarchy. This has been proved and studied at every level, from 3rd world countries to our own society. What use to anyone is a politician if he can’t feed and clothe his family once the supermarkets are closed? Would you sit by while your family starved, or would you club your neighbor to death and take his supplies? Because you’re a fool if you think he’s going to share with you when his family need to eat as well. We are humans yes, but we are all still animals. We have instincts and ingrained self-preservation mechanisms that will override any feelings of social responsibility. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really not going to last long in such circumstances.

If you think everything is fine, and the good in society outweighs the bad, you need to adjust your blinkers. You only have to take a look in any newspaper, on any day, to see how feral and animalistic we humans can be. The sooner we can flush out the system, cut-loose the dead weight, trim the fat from the meat, the better.

OK, wait, sorry, I think I'm misunderstanding you here. I thought you meant the world was completely fethed and we should all be cavemen. But the way to go around avoiding anarchy and primitivism is not to hang around and wait for it to happen. Do something about it. If you're genuinely worried, then go ahead, but I think we can avoid total collapse of society.

I myself am considering living amongst the Amish for a while later in life. They know what to do without technology or the government, and they actually get gak done. It seems like they live such a wonderful lifestyle. I mean, I thought that they would be a loony cult of farmers, but it's just amazing how they've coped without unnecessary technology. It's really inspiring to me.

If society were to collapse, I'd turn to the Amish. They'd be the best people to listen to in that case.

We'll leave grapes from the super market under your tree, if you like.

Keyasa wrote:The sooner we can flush out the system, cut-loose the dead weight, trim the fat from the meat, the better.

Meaning?

Cheese Elemental wrote:Then why the hell don't you take the initiative and live in the wild, since that's what you seem so intent on doing.

I am pretty sure that is not what he is talking about. Perhaps for himself, but not for the majority of the population at least. Your response is a bit generalized, and this thread is to offer a space for people to share their opinions.

we have great men like Al Gore

So how long have you been having these delusions, and are you under a psychiatrist's care currently?

Frazzled wrote:So how long have you been having these delusions, and are you under a psychiatrist's care currently?

I was wondering how long it would take you to see the Gore thing.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I mean, I thought that they would be a loony cult of farmers, but it's just amazing how they've coped without unnecessary technology. It's really inspiring to me.

If society were to collapse, I'd turn to the Amish. They'd be the best people to listen to in that case.

Couldn't agree more. I have the utmost respect for people who can turn their hand to creating something useful out of a few bits of wood, or someone who knows how to feed themeslves and their family without resorting to going shopping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrexasaur wrote:

Keyasa wrote:The sooner we can flush out the system, cut-loose the dead weight, trim the fat from the meat, the better.

Meaning?

The benefit scroungers, who sit around getting paid for it whilst bringing their horrible children up to mirror their lazy lifestyles.

The criminals, who get put in prison, serve some time, and leave to commit more crimes.

The child molesters, rapists, murderers, gangsters, drug dealers, pimps...

Those who contribute nothing, and take everything.

And this is not a racist, or fascist rant. This is about trimming the leeches away from the flesh. I'd like to edit the part with "we flush out the system" to "as soon as Nature Herself flushes out the system".

After the oil crash (or similar event), when we have to survive on our own two feet, these maloderous wretches will naturally die out. Anyway. Rant for another day

Manchu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:So how long have you been having these delusions, and are you under a psychiatrist's care currently?

I was wondering how long it would take you to see the Gore thing.

I should bifurcate the global warming issue from Al Gore. They are separate. Al Gore is a scheming hypocritical mouthbreather. The global warming issue is something else entirely.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/greatergood/2009april/Pinker054.php

Cheese Elemental wrote:And most of those 'blue-haired godless socialist punks' would be rowdy low-lifes with no fething idea of what politics is about.

I was referring to myself. Thanks, buddy. Also, many "punk" types are very politically informed. And the fact that I put SOCIALIST in there was also important.

Also, you don't hear much about those types much outside this country. Go watch the movie Religulous. If you aren't scared after that, there's nothing I can do to convince you.

Evidently there's nothing you can do to convince me, other than the director is a complete donkey-cave.

Bill Maher v. Ben Stein . . . who will annoy you into completely disagreeing with them first???

Wrexasaur wrote:

Keyasa wrote:The sooner we can flush out the system, cut-loose the dead weight, trim the fat from the meat, the better.

Meaning?

The benefit scroungers, who sit around getting paid for it whilst bringing their horrible children up to mirror their lazy lifestyles.
The criminals, who get put in prison, serve some time, and leave to commit more crimes.
The child molesters, rapists, murderers, gangsters, drug dealers, pimps...
Those who contribute nothing, and take everything.
And this is not a racist, or fascist rant. This is about trimming the leeches away from the flesh. I'd like to edit the part with "we flush out the system" to "as soon as Nature Herself flushes out the system".
After the oil crash (or similar event), when we have to survive on our own two feet, these maloderous wretches will naturally die out. Anyway. Rant for another day

The place to start is with corporate executives and corrupt politicians, get rid of them and things will start to seriously change.

The child molesters, rapists, murderers, gangsters, drug dealers, pimps... (You put these all in the same bucket???)

This statement kind of bugs me, and I know for a fact that the rapists and child molesters get the short end of the stick in prison. If I grew up in a serious ghetto, I would probably try to be some sort of kingpin, it is just life and you have to survive. Crime is usually just wrong, but the fact remains that without other options you would be doing exactly the same thing in their situation. Perhaps you think, well I wouldn't do that because A.) B.) and C.) but you did not grow up the same situation, and if you did you were lucky enough to get out of it with a positive mind set.

Come to California and tell me that the prisons actually help protect us. Prisons become a pit for criminals to brood and plan on their next crime BECAUSE they are not given serious alternatives. There are work programs, but most of these guys have never had a "real" job in their life, perhaps they were to busy trying to stay alive and avoid being the next sucker to get shot. Prisons in America are a way to keep minorities at the lowest social scale, and don't give me that just go to college nonsense, not usually an option when all you are surrounded by is drugs, sex, and violence.

And here is a funny poster .

Don't care, not important. In a hundred years the robots are going to kill us all anyway. Live it up and screw recycling. Cheap beer rules!!!

You must be talking about these robots...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/248349.page

And these soldiers...



The future is full of things trying to nibble or eat us.