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OK, I'll admit, I'm being a bit of a Devil's Advocate here.

And really, of course I feel it is more then fair to comment on a book that I've more than half way finished!

The characters are fairly well established, though this being non-Abnett Black Library, I can see the 'plot twists' and 'character redemption arcs' coming a mile (and a half a book!) away...

I do like the MM's though.

As for Erikson's work, I can say that if you like Fantasy at all, you really, really need to read that series!

I am on book 7 now, and it has been a fantastic ride so far!

One of the best series I've ever read, period. Blows away the Wheel of Time, in my opinion.

Alpharius wrote:OK, I'll admit, I'm being a bit of a Devil's Advocate here.

And really, of course I feel it is more then fair to comment on a book that I've more than half way finished!

The characters are fairly well established, though this being non-Abnett Black Library, I can see the 'plot twists' and 'character redemption arcs' coming a mile (and a half a book!) away...

I do like the MM's though.

As for Erikson's work, I can say that if you like Fantasy at all, you really, really need to read that series!

I am on book 7 now, and it has been a fantastic ride so far!

One of the best series I've ever read, period. Blows away the Wheel of Time, in my opinion.

I like the MM in a way too, don't get me wrong. I just can't understand how you see the book presenting them positively when from all angels it seems to me GW is setting them up as the bad boys in the good boys crowd. Other than that, they're the spice in the Salamander's goody too shoes flavor. I think we'll probably see Vinyard return in the trilogy in the future, which is kind of fitting. The Chapters foil each other well.

I wasn't much of a fan of Wheel of Time . Just about everything blows it away in my book. Maybe I'll try the first one in the series and see if I like it.

Agreed on where GW seems to be taking the MM.

Admittedly, background on them is rather limited, though I do admit to getting a chuckle out of their depiction in the War for Armageddon background!

Also agreed on the Wheel of Time series (I only threw it out there because of the similar size of the series). It was OK for the first few books, but that's a series that should have been 5 or 6 books MAX, and probably just fine at 3.

Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series doesn't have that feel to it at all.

He is a VERY good writer and keeps things really interesting, and he switched perspectives, sides, characters, continents (!) etc. with great skill.

Definitely give the first one a try, and then post a thread about it when you do!

Alpharius wrote:Agreed on where GW seems to be taking the MM.

Admittedly, background on them is rather limited, though I do admit to getting a chuckle out of their depiction in the War for Armageddon background!

Yes. I'm expecting expansion in the future though. A chapter like the MM is a break from the standard Marine fair and these chapters usually get the fluff love along with the Ultra's (Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Soul Drinkers, etc). I expect to see them in future Tome of Fire novels, and wouldn't be surprised if they got their own books maybe someday. An MM series would be an interesting break if written well.

Isnt the clue kinda in the title? I mean.. they are called the Marines Malevolent! Not the Marines Merry or the Marines ..er....

Well you get the idea.

Alpharius wrote:Agreed on where GW seems to be taking the MM.

Admittedly, background on them is rather limited, though I do admit to getting a chuckle out of their depiction in the War for Armageddon background!

Also agreed on the Wheel of Time series (I only threw it out there because of the similar size of the series). It was OK for the first few books, but that's a series that should have been 5 or 6 books MAX, and probably just fine at 3.

Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series doesn't have that feel to it at all.

He is a VERY good writer and keeps things really interesting, and he switched perspectives, sides, characters, continents (!) etc. with great skill.

Definitely give the first one a try, and then post a thread about it when you do!

Sorry for going OT, but I haven't read Wheel of Time or Book of the Fallen. They both seem like really long series. The last long series I slogged through for fantasy was The Sword of Truth series and it almost killed me. Seriously, I tried to commit suicide by papercutting myself to death. If you've read The Sword of Truth, Alpharius, is Book of the Fallen like that?

Oh, and mind giving a brief synopsis? Maybe in PM since I don't want to derail the thread.

Just to mention somethings about the Salamanders. They recruit from one planet so while Vulkan`s name doesn`t spell out like He`stan, for example, it`s because he isn`t from that planet right?

Anyways I`m just saying it`s probably more of a cultural thing. For them insulting others chapters tech...I can see that happening. After all don`t they place a great deal of importance in their blacksmithing skills?

Shallow opinion: Salamanders seems to be a pretty cheaply printed book especially in contrast to that handsome Ravenor omnibus (although I don't like the inquisitor-lump stories too well). After looking at this thread, I went to the shop thinking I might pick it up. Judging the book by it's cover, I thought "meh." But after remember that pesky aphorism I cracked it open and read through the first few pages. Still "meh." (I'm not expecting great lit; I read lots of BL stuff.) Outcome: did not buy book. I look forward to seeing a thoughtful review when you're done, Alpharius.

Yeah, when I saw the cover, I was immediately reminded of Dawn of War(mind you, I love the games, but judging from others' constant bashing Goto, they're not the most...masterfully written of books in the BL).

Also, Marines Malevolent == Angry Marines? >.>

I finished reading it and it was pretty good,

mattyrm wrote:Isnt the clue kinda in the title? I mean.. they are called the Marines Malevolent! Not the Marines Merry or the Marines ..er....

Well you get the idea.

And there used to be a Legion called the World Eaters. "Hurray, we're being rescued by the World Eaters!" has the same sort of cognitive dissonance. I think the Imperium feels that scary names help keep up the mythos of 'space marines are beings you really don't want invading your planet, so pay your taxes'.

Well now...

I've finished the book, and I'll have to stand by my opinion stated earlier: The Salamanders really don't look that good in their own book!

They harbor within their ranks traitors, murderers (of humans AND of fellow marines in their own chapter!) and, clearly, someone well on their way down the path of damnation.

Line of the book?

"This is Brother Techmarine Harkane of his most noble lord Vinyar's strike cruiser, Purgatory. In the name of the Emperor, the Marines Malevolent bring you salvation!"

Salvation indeed!

At this point, the Salamanders are most in need of being saved from themselves!

Overall, an OK story. Maybe a tick above standard BL fare.

A couple of nit picks though.

We KNOW that the Marines Malevolent and the Salamanders have had run ins before - most famously on Armageddon, right?

Where Captain VINYAR was actually known as VINYARD?

Where the Salamander in charge stuck him after hearing of his callous bombing of an Ork infested refugee camp.

So, is this story taking place BEFORE Armageddon? It isn't clear, but I don't think so.

So, if not, why no mention of this? Possibly this takes place before Armageddon?

Who knows!

If you're a Salamander fan, well, you'll like this book, and you won't get as torqued up as Blood Angel fans did (and rightfully so!) over Swallow's treatment of them. Just get ready to read the word PAULDRON. A lot. (Though it is better than SURPLICE, I suppose...)

If you're looking for some good 40K fiction, this one will tide you over until Abnett's next release...

How is their color pattern? An image would be enough.

It is pure awesome and win!

OK, it is some yellow, and some black:



http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Marines_Malevolent

And here are some AWESOME painted versions over on the B&C:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=84716

I liked the book in spite of all the little bad things that happens. Interesting ending though and I look forward to the next book(if there will be one, correct me if im wrong).

Concerning the infighting in the company; clearly the SM who killed other SM's, i can't recall his name at the moment, could be tainted with chaos. he does clearly say in the book he has managed to hide his "evils" from the Librarians and Chaplains. He is on the road to becoming a renegade marine.

Also, Alpharius, I do believe this does take place before Armageddon because Tu'shan had said at the end of the book he would honor the deal by giving them the stolen gear for rescuing the salamanders, but Tu'shan had said the MM had earned the Salamanders ire(ooh, scary, maybe)... Then he beats up Cptn. Vinyard at Armageddon for this instance and the notable fact he blew 4,000 humans.... probably smiling while he did to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:



http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Marines_Malevolent

And here are some AWESOME painted versions over on the B&C:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=84716

Its O.K...... too much yellow for me.

I do agree that the MM's are the dick's of SM's.

I'd be surprised if this was before Armageddon, only because if a book is 'set in the past', we usually 'know' that, don't we?

I would be less surprised if GW "Editorial" screwed the pooch yet again.

I mean, in the latest SM Codex they talk about the Relictors having 'to be careful', when we already know what happened to them!

True......though I think it would be in the past because of the notable fact that all Salamanders would instantly hate Cptn. Vinyard's guts after what had happened and most likely any SM of that chapter. It's either that or they all had a serious lapse in memory and managed to forget that atrocity and only focus on their out of date armor and weapons. This book could very well be the very beginning of the disagreements between these chapters.

Maybe, but unless this is a serious retcon, we 'should' have heard about this already, as in, by the time of the Armageddon War.

Still, Marines Malevolent 1, Salamanders 0.

And really?

Earning a Chapter Master's Ire?

More arrogant boasting and sabre rattling!

LOL! Well if it is before then this is all new and has not yet been incorporated into the fluff concerning the hatred the chapters have for eachother.

I have to say, I'd never really given the Slamanders much of my time, and I really only "noticed" them while reading "Heros of the Space Marines" a while back....already in that short story I was left feeling a bit like..."Really, does GW want to respresent Marines in this way"....as previously mentioned, internal elitism, or class-ism(?) leading to ineptitude, and contrary to regular cannon, a willingness to sacrifice human life for, in my opinion, the smallest margin of victory....

Now, its not worth getting wound up over a short story, I mean, GW is famous for fecking up its own fluff, but I find the results of this short story quite interesting.

Is this another example of a lack of coherancy within accepted cannon? or are GW trying to flesh out the Salamanders and give them more character?

On the other point about the MM being a bunch of ass-hats! I think you'll find they are not the only chapter to fall foul of "Dick Syndrome" below are a list of Chapters that stray dangerously close to the edge of the Emporers light:

Flesh Tearers - Barbaric killing machines, people avoid using them!

Iron Hands - Up the Ad-Mech butts, and have no love for flesh based life-forms!!

Dark Angels.....

In fact all the Unforgiven.....you know the secret, what more is there to say!

These are the ones that readily spring to mind.....I'm sure there are others.

Alpharius wrote:

Earning a Chapter Master's Ire?

More arrogant boasting and sabre rattling!

Well if this is the case of "arrogant boasting and sabre ratling" it eventualy leads to Cptn. Vinyard gettin bitch-slapped and beat up.....

So, Marines Malevolent-1 Salamanders-1

Also, Delephont, check lexicanum for the Black Dragons. They wont fight alongside the Dark Angels and ummmm, wow, lol. They wont fight alongside the Marines Malevolent either. They also have general problems with gene seed tithes.

Advent wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Earning a Chapter Master's Ire?

More arrogant boasting and sabre rattling!

Well if this is the case of "arrogant boasting and sabre ratling" it eventualy leads to Cptn. Vinyard gettin bitch-slapped and beat up.....

So, Marines Malevolent-1 Salamanders-1

Possibly so...

But, either this hasn't happened yet, so at this point in time, Marines Malevolent-1 Salamanders-0 still OR, Armageddon has already happened, but that incident 'never' happened, so, definitely Marines Malevolent-1 Salamanders-0.

Either way, no big deal...

Alpharius wrote:I'd be surprised if this was before Armageddon, only because if a book is 'set in the past', we usually 'know' that, don't we?

I would be less surprised if GW "Editorial" screwed the pooch yet again.

I mean, in the latest SM Codex they talk about the Relictors having 'to be careful', when we already know what happened to them!

I agree about the quality of the book. Not the best ever but it's not the worst either. A good tide you over read till the next thing you really want.

I think this book does take place before Armageddon (SPOILERS).


If you've finished than you've seen the conversation between Vinyard and Tu'Shan. Now we know at Armageddon these two were a little harsh with one another, but there's not so much as a hint about it in their conversation. It actually seems like Tu'Shan has never met Vinyard before that conversation, so I would say this is before Armageddon. I wouldn't be surprised if Armageddon took place in one of the later Tome of Fire books. I don't think this is an oversight but probably GW expanding as another poster said on the Salamanders and the Marines Malevolent by starting their little rivalry in Codex: Space Marines, and now expanding it in the Salamander's books. GW obviously has a plan for the MM, and for the Salamanders, and I'd take the book as a stepping stone in their plan. The little bit in CSM certainly earned the MM some fair and popularity, and likewise I think it also increased interest in the Salamanders. The chapters are on opposite sides in their view of the role of the Astartes and the humans of the Imperium. GW builds them both up and they create some fancy fluff to interest different kinds of people at the same time.

I agree. no big deal.

It was a good read though.

sweet! the marines malevolent get mentioned somewhere!
i would have never ordered the book but now i don't have a chance anymore not to read the book...

hopefully the fluff is good and will give me some inspiration for the presentation of my own demi company (that is only one assault marine away from being finished)

for the one's interested in the fluff i wrote after I presented the first batch:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=142401&hl=

marines malevolent FTW!